To think people in gender pay gap discussions who say women should go into trades to get a higher paid job ignore that a lot of trades are physically too demanding for a large number of women to do (though of course some do and can)?

[QueenSophia]

In a lot of gender pay gap discussions I've seen here & elsewhere, people note that male dominated jobs like building, plumbing etc are higher paid than female equivalents like the 5 Cs so women could improve the gender pay gap by going into those.

To me this is unfair as it ignores that a lot of women are not physically strong enough to do these jobs long term. Obviously some can & that's great but a lot will not be able to. Just saying women who would otherwise go into caring, cleaning etc should be plumbers, electricians etc is not reasonable for many.

AIBU?

To make good money as a plumber/electrician, you have to be self employed which means having a business brain and knowing how to manage that side of things. Also to be qualified thee are exams to pass. Its not the default job for people who are not 'academic'. Also I have employed many female plumbers, they are everywhere.

What is the lifetime risk of a flight attendant being subjected to a hijacking? Genuinely unsure.

The world is changing though. A lot of these jobs used to use heavy labour but are increasingly robot or machinery assisted etc .

Cool story.

@ToffeeCrabApplemaybe in some larger firms, in small local companies and with many tradesmen (who often are self employed and earn quite well) this is often not the case. I think robots are far less advanced then say AI and will be for a long time, hence desk jobs being easily replaced and physical jobs not.

Sexual assaults do impact quality of life for a lot of women.
To say one is lesser than another type of injury sustained at work isn't on.

Jobs that are physically demanding and require more strength pay more because they are done by men. Jobs requiring different/softer skills are paid less as they are done by women and women aren’t valued as much in society. This is what the Birmingham council payout was about, women getting paid less for doing traditional caring roles.

Pay should not be based on how strong you are, it should be based on skill level, qualifications and resource availability.

Women could do dome trades ie painter/decorater, plumber (although there is heavy lifting sometimes), electrician. That doesn’t take away from the fact that roles traditionally done by women are wrongly imo paid less.

Ha. Lots of tradespeople find this hard! Several i know have their wife doing the invoicing etc!

Its much easier than it used to be, there are phone apps to manage your stuff, scan a receipt & your accounts can be done largely automatically. Most will also pay an accountant for things like their tax return.

@measuretwicecutonce yes this is an argument that makes more sense to me, and as many roles traditionally high paid are being replaced (lawyers, accountants, economists, traders etc) things are likely to change. Physical roles that a computer can’t do will become more valuable

This. With spots on.

@ToffeeCrabApple the only problem though is that there is less money to pay for these things. Sorting the infrastructure to a home or building, or keeping services running is economically seen as more important to society. Take child care, for example, we have children and can’t afford to pay to have them cared for at a fair rate (based on the value involved). People get old and haven’t saved money for care fees. So what’s the answer? I’m not disagreeing by the way! Just asking.

I'm not minimising any kind of assault, especially sexual assault.

Nonetheless, these issues are not unique to women. Men are also face sexual harassment and physical assault at work. However when it comes to death and serious injury, men are vastly over-represented.

I think the point I mean is that the business or home owner will pay for these things/ services, but the parents and elderly people/ family members either can’t or don’t want to pay for care.

Honestly with respect you are an idiot. Fitting a radiator is done by plumbers who lift boilers and got water tanks and big radiators are very heavy. Electrics is a little bit easier I'll give you that but plumbing is a very hard physical job.

@Tontostitisi don’t think they are an idiot but I do agree that most people don’t appreciate how physically demanding some jobs are! I have tried some things so I know!

You can't respectfully call someone an idiot.
Most plumbers i knew had apprentices or labourer to do the grunt work.

Poor delicate women, stay in your place.

Yes men are naturally stronger and have some advantage but women would be strong enough for most of these jobs if they were doing them regularly.

I've been turned down for jobs for being a woman previously (they needed 'strong men'). I should have made more of a fuss of the sexism of that.

I’m mainly talking about advice to children as opposed to women.

On every thread about higher education a load of people will tip up and say everyone should go into trades.

I am absolutely not knocking it: these are great careers for many people but they are not panaceas.

I used to work for one of the big utilities with the apprentice team the company itself did an enormous amount of work to recruit and retain women they failed main reasons

outside all weathers all day
lone working
very physically demanding
no flexibility in working hours due to work being dictated by daylight

Mens jobs are more physically demanding and yes including care work.
The pay gap exists because women often prioritise staying home with kids

mustardgarnish

Noone should be "lifting" anyone in care- thats what hoists and OT equipment is for and if people are doing this then they are not following manual handling procedures correctly.

For caring roles in real life though with the nature of it you can’t count on equipment being there the second someone goes ti eg fall and need help though, a bit of security in the person’ strength would be nice!!! I spent a lot of time in the hospice with a relative and it was terrifying at time seeing women carers and nurses trying to help people who had no control over their body, who were falling out of bed, who suddenly decided to leave etc. we don’t live in an ideal world where equipment is ready at any given moment and ideal circumstances are there. I said after there needs to be a lot more people hired relaying to physical strength. We can all fool ourselves on the yes we can front but people like me who are physically weak shouldn’t be doing roles that need a certain amount of strength and fitness (I once had a lady walking by the bed I was at nearly fall and literally I couldn’t keep her up even though she was light as a feather). It’s like the old ‘in a fire, who do you want to arrive to save you’ scenario. Very few women will be able to pick you up.

And my god on actual trades, I nearly cry sometimes when a not very physically strong looking man turns up to fix equipment, struggling with moving and lifting it. It must be hell

I always thought that women want to chat to others at work - so won't want to work on their own day in day out like plumbers, decorators etc
But now you can listen to podcasts, nice music this might not be as important.
Also being outside in all weathers - not fun.

I mean we can actually just start from the point that many men and many women (I won’t say most!!) actually do work very hard and have it very difficult. I don’t think that is the competition. But some roles are physically too demanding for many women. Also a man who, for example, wanted to work in child care or similar may find it more difficult. Rightly or wrongly I personally wouldn’t hire a male childminder. Many will say they would on paper, but whether they would is another matter.

Those of us who work in construction will tell you the gender pay gap is alive and well in that industry too!

If someone falls near to you, aren't you meant to let them fall? If someone is trying to leave a ward where i once worked medication was used, they weren't being manhandled.
Do firefighters actually lift humans out of burning buildings, I thought equipment is used for this.