To think people in gender pay gap discussions who say women should go into trades to get a higher paid job ignore that a lot of trades are physically too demanding for a large number of women to do (though of course some do and can)?

[QueenSophia]

In a lot of gender pay gap discussions I've seen here & elsewhere, people note that male dominated jobs like building, plumbing etc are higher paid than female equivalents like the 5 Cs so women could improve the gender pay gap by going into those.

To me this is unfair as it ignores that a lot of women are not physically strong enough to do these jobs long term. Obviously some can & that's great but a lot will not be able to. Just saying women who would otherwise go into caring, cleaning etc should be plumbers, electricians etc is not reasonable for many.

AIBU?

There are studies on it done by universities, health bodies and the the construction industry. Go have a Google and you will find them. I also have family who work in the construction industry and it is very well known. There are jokes about the drug of choice for each trade.

No exactly that’s part of my point!

Everyone is fixated on the idea that a degree is a waste of money because it no longer guarantees a career.

But there are many reasons to get a degree other than for work opportunities.

And, as I said, the risk is that lots of kids now get funnelled into seeking opportunities in the trades which they are not suited to and creating a glut of plumbers and electricians.

Its horses for courses.

I'm an electrical consultant and I've only ever seen one female electrician on site my entire career. Electricians need to apprentice with a qualified electrician and I do wonder of this can be a barrier, both finding one and the idea of working very closely with a stranger for years. There is certainly no physical barrier in terms of strength etc.

@SartreI agree that is true. It’s also about motivations - what drives you? I am less motivated by money and more by meaning and purpose, for example.

Yes this is obviously plainly true too. It isn’t sexist to suggest women aren’t as physically strong as men, it’s just biological fact.

Yabu to think its about strength. My gorgeous petite 5 foot nothing friend went into a trade and loved the work.

What she didn't love was being constantly chatted up, as well as being very regularly sexually harassed in a culture that it was a lads world and she needed to just "have a sense of humour" and the sexist surprise and resulting comments that she was a girl when she turned up for a job. Not much in an HR and she had a cery real worry about being perceived as "difficult" for speaking up and that impacting on her getting repeat hiring for site work on bigger jobs.

Even just the relentless "you don't get many female..." wore very thin very quickly and she left within 5 years.

Women don't experience those things in female dominated roles.

Also, have you seen that loads of young women are into gym strength training? They aren't weak little babies.

Yes he 100% argues this too… Women are also more passive generally and this can be partly why they don’t get as high up the chain in workplaces. The CEOs/MDs are just more disagreeable.

Surely these women look at another career where they can use their skills?

We all have restrictions! Some women would love to be flight attendants but are too short. Some would like to be pilots but can't because of their sight. Some would like to be in the army but can't because of a particular disability. Others would love to be tennis stars but can't play tennis, or pop stars but can't sing. Some would like to be models but don't have the look....etc.....

What is your point?

Has anyone spotted that on childcare apps and sites, there are a handful of men... all of whom seem to charge far more than the women. For offering the same service. I would not book them, but I always wondered if they did get booked.

The seem to think their labour is more valuable than the women's.

Women have got into strength training as notions of fuckability have changed.
Sure they blather on about the "empowerment" and health aspects but ultimately they are working on their glutes for the same reason they're getting fillers, nkt because they aspire to take on traditionally male employment opportunities

So it could just be that women don’t like those jobs? I’m only one woman so can’t speak for all but I wouldn’t want to do it.

I wondered if women choosing their careers in their late teens when their caring hormones are a high level pushed them to teaching, caring roles etc

I think basic plumbing etc needs to be part of what everyone learns at school.

@Passaggressfedupwell exactly. Life will always be unfair to some degree. We might all be equal value in one sense (eg every life) but if I am starting a business, and can hire 1 member of staff, and all the risks and responsibilities involved in that, I will choose the most suitable person for the role - be that strength, intelligence, expertise, experience etc. or whatever is required.

The gender pay gap exists even in public sector white collar roles where, for example, housing workers tend to be paid more than library staff (a traditionally female role). It's far more complex than 'dangerous manual labour paid more than cleaning'

Let's not forget lots of people don't want women in those roles. From sexost wanker men who don't think they belong through to men that are insecure and don't want "their women" working with "other men".

So there isn't a lot of proactive work to bring them into the workforce and conversely there is a lot of nonsense from blokes who feel they need something as their own, like "being big and strong" and use it to scare women out.

Isn't circus studies another name for performing arts?. V worthy degree.

Haha are you female and at higher risk of osteoporosis? It is perimenopausal and menopausal women I see getting into lifting and boxing. For bone density.

Exercise also feels goooood.

Women are not like a Victorian scientist's notion of chimps or something.

Or we’re naturally more wired to take on the caring nurturing role? It isn’t shameful or embarrassing to admit women generally prefer those roles to hauling bricks about on a building site all day.

Their caring hormones?! Estrogen is my RAGE hormone.

Hilarious that you think women are making themselves look good to get a man when all the evidence is pointing to women choosing ti stay single and men are moaning about not being able to get a woman (and certainly not one's that will wipe their arsed for them like in the Goolld Old Days)

This has sent me happily down the familiar rabbit hole of Soviet and other women snipers

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/archive/myth-of-women-snipers-returns

I always think of what jobs would be like on one's period, and trades or delivery jobs etc. often have terrible/unreliable access to suitable toilets.

Maybe some women are impressing each other or being, gulp, competitive.

Yes my gym is mainly post menopausal women trying to avoid osteoporosis and maintain mobility. Not every activity carried out by women is about men

I don't think that communist societies are in any way shape or form to be emulated or quoted as any example of the right way to live.
Communism, and I don't exaggerate here, is an evil.