To think people in gender pay gap discussions who say women should go into trades to get a higher paid job ignore that a lot of trades are physically too demanding for a large number of women to do (though of course some do and can)?

[QueenSophia]

In a lot of gender pay gap discussions I've seen here & elsewhere, people note that male dominated jobs like building, plumbing etc are higher paid than female equivalents like the 5 Cs so women could improve the gender pay gap by going into those.

To me this is unfair as it ignores that a lot of women are not physically strong enough to do these jobs long term. Obviously some can & that's great but a lot will not be able to. Just saying women who would otherwise go into caring, cleaning etc should be plumbers, electricians etc is not reasonable for many.

AIBU?

women want to chat to others at work goodness me. So all we do is sit around having a natter!?

Women want to chat at work?!

Is this an incel thread or early rising schoolchildren?

The research teams I've been in have been majority female and oddly enough we are mostly silent while working.

Bletchley was 75% women. Jolly japes.

God. Still so much stereotyping. Women want to talk. Women are weak. Women can't run businesses.

And don't get me started on all the structural and societal factors that go into "women prioritise childcare".

That's equal pay, not the pay gap. The pay gap is about median or mean wage differences between men and women. It's mainly driven by stereotypically masculine roles (like plumbing) being more societally valued than stereotypically feminine roles. But it's also driven by more men in very senior positions earning a lot vs women being in lower level lower paid roles.

I worked with industrial electricians who had to carry reels of armoured cable up to the roof of a 6 storey building via ladders, I think people forget electrics isn’t just sockets in houses.

Yip that little gem was as stupid as it comes.

Apart from those with an illness/disability I’d disagree. I used to work in construction, proper hands on stuff. I’m a fully qualified Road tarmacer, have my street works licence. I can mend sewers, rising mains, sewage pumps. When I started that job I moved into it from an office job as a 20yo female who wasn’t sporty or fit. I certainly got stronger fast! I remember being asked on a night out how my arms were so toned/muscled wand it was just through work.

Theres also a lot of construction type jobs while yes you need a certain level of fitness you don’t need to be particularly strong. I can’t imagine there’s heavy lifting as an electrician? A female friend of mine is a firefighter, she keeps herself fit and strong by being in the gym a lot.

@Mt563i never said women were weak and i don’t think anyone else did either.

Men are stronger than women as a general rule, this isn’t remotely controversial or offensive.

I don’t think the rule is that clear cut though, there are lots of women who do ‘strength’ at the gym and now muscular women are far more common than they once were.

If a woman really wanted to do a trade I don’t see what would be stopping her, but on average she probably would have to build the fitness a bit more than your average man.

Does the wife get paid as an administrator or is this not factored in to the strong man's salary

The reason why care work is under paid is that women can't or won't refuse to do it if it's not paid more.

In a family the buck generally stops with us. If the male partner refuses to get out of bed for less than £20/hour so earns nothing but the woman can get minimum wage caring then what's going to happen? She doesn't have the opportunity to refuse to work unless her hourly rate rises.

The real issue is that when something is considered 'women's work' the pay is lower. When computer programming was primarily done by women is was classified as 'admin' and paid less. When teaching was mainly done by men, it was considered an important profession and paid more.

The issue isn't about women picking careers that are more/ less lucrative, the issue us that in many places as soon as something becomes seen as a job for men it is paid more, and when it is seen as a job for women it is paid less.

But you can choose your specialism if you’re self employed. Even for plumbing round here you could fill your days just doing gas safety inspections for landlords and student houses! Wouldn’t even need to fix a leak never mind be lugging boilers about.

Or we could stop valuing things that are mostly done by women less, and pay carers etc more.

It's always been the way - women move into a field and it becomes devalued. Doctors, teachers etc were paid more relative to other earnings before women started doing those jobs. Being a secretary was "professional" and well-paid when only men did it. Waitstaff were paid more when they were all men. So many people have the belief, deep down, that they're just worth more. That they "wouldn't" work for less. That you'd insult the dignity of a man by expecting him to put up with what's obviously fine for women.

I think part of that is because not all the people who work in construction are that safety conscious. Drug and alcohol consumption is very high compared to other industries.

See: paternity leave discussions

Suddenly if men are going to care for their babies, we need to review the pay for parental leave. Poor men can't be expected to care for their children for half of minimum wage.

It's always been the way - women move into a field and it becomes devalued. Doctors, teachers etc were paid more relative to other earnings before women started doing those jobs.

This is true but it was the case post war that only the man worked and the woman at home so men's pay was to run a household. When women moved more into the workforce it was a second income which gave an excuse for paying less

Of course it's not 'TOXIC'.
It's called realism.
It is entirely fair and just that if a person carries out dangerous work they are paid more than someone who works in HR.

I am being mocked for suggesting that women wanted to chat at work. If that is not the case at all - Why are women choosing lower paid jobs??? All the nursing, carework, shopfront why do those jobs when there are better paid options?

Value is unfortunately about where value is earned (ie. money).

And no one is really considering that this is and will change. Ie in the future a nurse and caring roles may be more valuable than a doctor.

No

Only if you suspend critical thinking and remain within a particular setup.

The Market is not eternal or universal.

Have you ever been on a building site? All men do is chat. We had a group building an extension and it was constant natter and 'banter'. It's also the same conversation on repeat.