To stay in my marriage for money

[nothingcancompare]

I’m aware that that’s an inflammatory thread title bur u guess that is what it boils down to. So to give a bit more detail.

DH and I have two children ; DD is 5 and in reception and our ds is nearly three. I work two and a half days a week, and it’s in a school so off for school holidays.

Before we had children I thought we’d roughly be equal parents. This has not been thr case at all. DH definitely sees anything he does do with the children as a sort of optional extra rather than what has to be done, and everything is left to me. I can count the times he’s had them both together on one hand: that isn’t an exaggeration. Even if he does do something I have to prep everything, so for example he takes DD to school on Friday and collects her as I’m at work, but I have to dress her, give her breakfast, clean teeth, pack bag etc.

As a result the children just gravitate more and more to me. Even if he does do something he just creates more work for me, so if I go out for a couple of hours the house is trashed when I get back, he doesn’t cook for them

Obviously I’ve tried to address it with him, he just goes on the defensive and hones in on a particular occasion (yeah well they started fighting so …) or just whines generally which I hate and is difficult to answer. So now five and a half years down the line I do have to accept this is how things are.

I don’t get a break at all. I get up when the children do, tend to then through the day and night in one case and am responsible for their diet, activities and getting them to said activities and everything. Seven days a week, it’s relentless and I’m already dreading the long school holidays.

So here is where the title is relevant. Truthfully I’ve lost a lot of respect for DH and I’ve come to realise that while he’s basically a kind man he’s also selfish and lazy.

Ending the marriage is one possibility but I’m not sure when I think about it that it would help anything. Yes, I wouldn’t have resentment but the children would be upset and their lives overturned (new schools and nurseries, new home, etc.)

Or if I stay as I am. I have one more year to get through and then when both children are in school I will have a couple of days a week for me. Otherwise, I’d have to be full time and I’m not sure I can take working full time in term time and then switching to full time childcare in holidays.

I know it’s awful and I don’t consider myself a mercenary person but I have to also think about what’s realistic in terms of my mental health and family stability

I get you op - and I think you should stay and see what it’s like once your youngest is at school and you do then get some time to yourself term time. No real benefit making a decision now when the impact would be significant.

I know it doesn’t feel like it but he’s the one that is missing out. I hated the toddler years (only had 1 DS as it was clear H was a lazy sod from the start) but I had 2 single parent friends who I spent most weekends with as H was supposedly working. Now when DSo reminisces about going to this place or that place or ‘do I remember when …’ it was all with other people - his H was not in sight. H regrets it now but it’s too late to go back and do things differently.

I voted YABU, because you deserve to be happy. So in a way yes you are being unreasonable. How long do you want to stay in a marriage that is chipping away at you like this. You deserve to be in an environment that makes you happy and content and maybe in time meet a man who respects you.

I mean, yanbu to give it another year - can you quit work for a year?

Then once theyre in school, and you have some time to yourself, you can decide what you want to do x

I dont know why you wouldnt say to him, if hes a kind man, that your effing miserable.

Id consider:

Being as clear with him as you are here.
Counselling.
Coming back to mess he created and ignore it and let him tidy up.
Start on days youre taking kids to do something saying things like oh can you pack the lunches and get him to do more.
Accept if you want him to do more.. short term he mightnt do it to your standard but let him learn.
Consider working more so if youre this miserable you can leave.

I would sit him down and tell him how unhappy you are and that you feel like you are drowning. Insist that he goes to therapy with you so an independent therapist can teach him to see you and the mental load you are carrying. If you’ve got family or friends around that can give you some respite ask for help. People probably don’t realise you’re struggling and wouldn’t mind I imagine giving you a morning of freedom. I’ve helped friends by watching their kids so they could get their hair done or go out for an evening as a child free adult. Get the 3 year old some time in preschool - you’re entitled to 30 hours. You sound burnt out and your husband sounds like he weaponises incompetence and is in blissful ignorance because you won’t let everything fall apart but you do need to tell him, be explicit and tell him so he can’t say you didn’t try and let him know what was going on. Be honest do you think he would let the children die without you being there to supervise? If not tell him you need a break pick a time during the school holidays so the kids don’t need to be anywhere and go away by yourself for at least 3 days to a travel inn. Tell him not to contact you about anything unless it is life and death and recharge. Advice him that if the house is a shit hole you will come back see it and then turn around and leave again so if it means he has to pay for a cleaner then so be it. He will learn because he will have too. Take your break don’t wait for him to give you one.

I don’t blame you for being resentful. He can handle them, they are 3 and 5 year old kids fgs it’s not rocket science. He’s choosing not to because he can’t be arsed.

@nothingcancompare I agree that you wouldn't gain much to leave him now, as long as you are happy muddling along.

I just wanted to reassure you that it will get easier. In the next year your toddler will become less (or at least different) work. I always say life gets easier once they can colour in.

As someone who has stayed part time, I'm glad I traded a mental first few years for a better balance long term.

At the point they are at school you can reassess things.

You say he can't manage both (and I don't doubt you) but could you try leaving the two year old and going out with the older one? It's not time to yourself but it will feel different.

Find small ways to make the next couple of years easier. Even if that's just finding other mums to sit in a park with.

God honestly, 2 young children, working part time and NO help from your husband is exhausting both physically and mentally because you are literally holding it all together with no help.

i know you don’t want to send the youngest to nursery more but honestly I would do one morning on one of your days off so you just have a precious 3 hours to yourself. Husband can bloody pay for that. I would then insist that he gets up one day at the weekend at whatever time they wake, is that 6.30 say? Then he takes them downstairs and gives them breakfast and gets them dressed and then you get a cuppa at 8.30. I think in some ways (and I’m really not trying to be mean when I say this) but you are enabling him to be fucking useless. He has to start pulling his weight, this is simply not fair on you. Then when he can cope with that he can work towards getting them out for a walk or to the park for a couple of hours too and then you can have a relaxing shower/bath/breakfast one day a week too. You say he’s kind (??) so you need to sit him down and tell him how exhausted you are and that you now expect that he, as your husband, has to learn how to be involved with his children.

Good luck!

Right now the children are very dependent on you so it is really hard when DH wont help more and accept more responsibility as the Dad. But its quite common. That doesn't mean you should accept it but what are the options - talking to him (you have tried and he gets defensive and deflects), yelling at him (upsets everyone), ending the marriage (is not an easy option at all and also upsets everyone) or continue as you are knowing things will improve as the kids become more independent.

Being realistic, ending the marriage will not result in extra time and support for you - in fact it may well result in a much harder life for you in which you do everything still, yet also have to provide and possibly work longer hours. When it comes to divorce its amazing how finances get hidden away, child maintenance becomes unaffordable and expenses for everything increase. If you are living with a horrible man then being on your own may well be the better and happier option regardless of how hard it is. But if you are living with a generally decent guy who is just misogynistic and thinks your job is do raise the kids like most men seem to do and you can still have a good life together than I personally would do that.

From the age of 8 they are a lot more independent. Fast forward 6 years and your oldest is 11 starting high school and youngest is 9 almost finishing primary school life will be different. Each year they get older they become that bit more independent. Can you make things easier for yourself for now - eg get in a cleaner one day a week, put the youngest in nursery for some extra days?

There is no right or wrong way to go about things, but I would have a think about what could make your life easier for the next few years to help you not get burnt out. x

The post you’re responding to is such a fucking bullshit post. I have a four year old and have been to Glastonbury twice, had holidays in France and Italy, and frequently go out to dinner/the cinema/the theatre with people who aren’t my husband. The idea that you don’t want to be with your kids because your husband won’t do childcare is just bananas. Seriously I hate the martyrs of Mumsnet so much. I’m so sorry for you that you sacrificed your entire life to childcare angry boomer lady! Some of us have careers and interior lives and we want to drink wine in the sun and swim and dance and see art and live. Jesus Christ!

Anyway if I were you I’d probably divorce him but that’s because his lack of support would give me such an ick I’m not sure I could have sex with hum. Maybe try telling him what a massive turn off it is?

What is making me unhappy is literally never having any sort of break or time to myself while DH has loads. I know once this balance is addressed I’ll be OK

For what it's worth I felt exactly the same as you when my children were very small. And as you say, once I had a bit more time to myself things looked much brighter.

Why are some men like this... maybe get a plan in place for the future so maybe then it won't feel so relentless if you do plan to part ways.
Kids are resilient.. give you're partner/husband an ultimatum step up or you're out of it and going alone you are anyway x

"I have one more year to get through and then when both children are in school I will have a couple of days a week for me."
I think it makes sense to grit your teeth for the year until your DS in is school. You can then draw breath and rebuild yourself - that's your start point. I don't consider that plan to be mercenary, just clear-eyed.

But - that's only going to work for you in the short-term. Right now, that's enough for you to be dealing with. So, once you've had enough downtime and rebuilt yourself (might be weeks, months or years until you get to the point) then the long-term will need your attention.

"Truthfully I’ve lost a lot of respect for DH and I’ve come to realise that while he’s basically a kind man he’s also selfish and lazy."
The loss of respect is the killer. I truly believe it is impossible to love someone that you don't respect, and years of not respecting him will eventually kill your love for him - it may also kill any affection. What then?

Do you see yourself growing old together? You and a lazy selfish husband that you no longer respect, and both children adult and moved on? Yes, it's a long way off and you need to deal with your burnout first, but eventually this will be your priority. And it's worth putting some plans in place for it.

You're a teacher, and you don't want to go full-time - fair enough. What about tutoring? Not, now, maybe not for years, but when you're rebuilt enough to consider your long-term. It could allow you to build up a nest-egg - and nest-eggs make more choices available.

Once the children are older, they will become aware of the domestic set-up of mum doing everything whilst dad sits on his arse. That is the adult relationship behaviour that you and he are modelling to your children. They will absorb that women do everything and men do nothing. Your daughter will absorb that, your son will absorb that. Put that thought on the back-burner for now, but eventually you'll have to deal with it. Otherwise you could find your daughter following in your footsteps and yous son following in his father's.

id start doing less
id start going out one evening a week - find somewhere to go and do the work you normally do at home, preferably somewhere with a glass of wine
id start going out on a Saturday morning without warning, leaving him to it

id not mention the mess, ignore the mess and ignore his washing - Gish didn't I get round to that sorry not sorry I was busy cleaning

don't talk abo9ut lists, don't talk about it at all just do it bit by bit

so slowly he doesn't get every weekend off, he doesn't get every saturday morning in bed

It's the old joke, isn't it?

Q: Which of your children is the most difficult to parent?
A: My mother-in-law's

No wonder you have lost respect for him. If you have any feelings left for him, let him know that he either pulls his weight or you are off. At least then you might get some help in the next couple of years before #2 is at school.

Ok OP... I get you! Been there. I also have a husband who is a good man but lazy and happy for me to be default parent. He pulls his weight now.

I tried pleading and fighting - didn't work. Then I think I had what in olden days would be called a mental breakdown. Many reasons for this - not merely burn out - but that was a big piece. I took to the bed. Went on SSRIs, which I had a really bad reaction to. BUT! after the initial reaction to the meds wore off... I observed. I saw what - if I completely did not do - my OH would do. I realised he would do things like get up, get kids ready for school, do school run. He would not do things like clean house, make healthy dinner (he'd make it, but it would be shit). So I did a mathematical calculation. I started doing the things he wouldn't do and I just stopped doing the things he would. Frankly it is roughly 60/40 now as opposed to me doing absolutely everything.

I had to literally drop everything and see which pieces he'd pick up. I was in a very dark place, so Im not sure I d recommend this. But it has saved our marriage and my mind.

Again and again I am amazed at the absence of courage in so many people. You have one life. Living a life that is a lie - e.g. Living with somebody you don't love - is a recipe for all sorts of loneliness and mental health issues. An emptiness will descend upon you as the years grow, and it rips your soul apart, year after year. The touch, the little kindnesses - their absence will destroy you, leaving you bereft of the words for what's missing, for that emptiness. Before you know it, your leaving the loneliness of middle-age marriage for the loneliness of old-age marriage. Living a life that is untrue to your emotional and existential needs for connection is the source of so much loneliness in marriages. Be honest with yourself, and then have the courage to be true to yourself. The latter is far more difficult.

I'm working my way through the thread so apologies for any repeats.
In my experience once the respect has gone, the being nice to each other and caring for each other isn't far behind. XH has still never packed a bag for DD6. After 12 months or so of eow (only 3 overnights) a recent episode, sorry for being vague - I don't have the full details - means DD can't be left alone with him so I'm doing a 3 hour round trip for lunch/playground trips. I worked ft during our marriage and carried everything but taking the bins out/putting petrol in the car. I did every night waking and early morning except for a handful of times, even then I was still woken.
After a tricky 2 years we're settled into our new home. I still work ft & use holiday club/afterschool club. Yes it's expensive, yes it's relentless. But I wouldn't trade where we are now for our former life (I might sell a kidney to have our cleaner back though 😅). I have 2 of us, not 3, to look after. Our home is happy. I can say I tried everything to make our marriage work. But ultimately I would have been teaching DD to settle and be unhappy/resentful in her own partnership. She deserves more than that and so do I.

Unfortunately I think a lot of these problems are caused by society refusing to admit that men and woman are quite different.

Women carry the baby, many women are absolutely hardwired to nurture and organise. Many men find babies and toddlers really difficult, but manage much better when they are older.

Parenting a 5yo and a 2yo is pretty much the trenches of parenting.p

I wouldn’t throw the marriage away over this. Of course you are entitled to do that, but I think it would be a bad decision. Modern society demands that men do baby and toddler stuff, but for many, it’s not something they are good at. They then get accused of weaponised incompetence. Sometimes it is, but a lot of times, is just actual incompetence at something they don’t enjoy and are rubbish at.

So, you do you, but do bear in mind that sometime what society expects is unrealistic.

So why is OP struggling? Why do so many women struggle when they're left alone for the hardest part of parenting?

And what rock do you live under that makes you think women overall somehow don't do the brunt of childcare and there are all these expectations upon men?

In my circumstances yes. I would say it’s more sensible to stay than leave and grind yourself down to a shred.
@nothingcancompare I was in your situation so I really do empathize with how you feel. However, nothing can compare (!) to the freedom and autonomy of creating a life of your choosing. If your husband has the children minimally ie. Wednesday tea time 2 hours and every other weekend, he will pay you the maximum amount of child support relative to his earnings as it's less than 52 nights a year. The times that they are with him will be when you rest and do things just for you. He will learn to manage I promise you, look up weaponised incompetence, my ex was a master at it but as soon as the audience is removed and they are left to fend for themselves they invariably do!!

I work full time in a school and I’m counting down until the summer as I can’t wait for the long break with my children. To be honest it sounds like neither you or your husband enjoy having children. Either that or you’re completely burned out.

Don’t underestimate how much energy it takes to be annoyed with someone. I had the same scenario but my kids were 13, 9 &. 5. I stayed for them, then I found out he cheated so I left. I was so much happier as a single parent (he saw them once every 6 weeks as a different country) . My annoyance was gone and I’d been doing it all myself anyway. He was well off 20years later he is very rich I’m not. I’m happy!

Look, if you haven't read or absorbed anything OP has said, just say so.

Not read all the other msgs yet but wanted to reply before bedtime takes over and I don’t. Sounds to me from what I’m reading that you don’t actually want to leave him, he just needs a giant rollicking kick up the arse. You need to communicate. Sounds v like my parent’s dynamic. My mum and aunt moan till the cows come home about my dad and uncle, mum and aunt have always done everything, and they are not wrong at all, they are lazy sods when it comes to most house related stuff, but they have also enabled these men to do sod all over the years as far as the fam stuff is concerned. Now my dad and uncle are still useless but my mum and aunt still do it all and moan about them and nothing changes, it only gets worse and they’re in their 70s/80s. I think unless you massively work on this, in therapy, in life, all the time, and particularly at this stage of life, it won’t change, and he’ll keep being useless and frustrated (and prob feeling a bit under confident and a spare part) and you’ll keep going doing all the work and being utterly exhausted. By the way meant to say I’m so sorry because partner and I largely split the parenting day to day slog (dishwasher cooking washing up yadada) and even when two of us its flat out so you must be utterly utterly utterly exhausted, spent, pissed off, resentful. Can you guys do therapy? This dynamic needs to change. You need a break. He needs to stop being selfish and lazy, and needs to get in the habit of building up his practice and confidence in parenting. It isn’t too late but will require work. Are you able to book in a holiday for just yourself? Tell him you are so angry about this situation and you need a break. Talk him through a weekend. What the kids need food wise, activities, and let him then be trained up like a new trainee at work, and then let him take ownership and control, and then you go away. Go on a city break, walking weekend, meet friends. Just go somewhere quiet where your body and mind can have a completely well earned break. Go to a premier inn and look at a blank wall for two nights. Youve bloody well earned it. And let him dive in, build that relationship with his kids, and learn on the job. In our marriage I think I’m the lazy one; my husband is so competent and his bond with my first is so unbelievably close I would often feel a bit adjacent to it all and I got a bit low. I was unwell too and it all became one sided. He would tell me stuff youve been telling your husband and it took a lot of work to adjust the dynamic but things are sooo much better now. I’m less of a lazy shite and still a bit all over the place (adhd) so he’s more competent in the house sense but I’m so much better than I was and his frustration with me is largely gone. It’s boosted my confidence too in parenting which was probably a large part of it I think. You need to tell him again and again that you need proper proper breaks. Can you adjust things so he works from home say on one day then does childcare that evening? Every week? You go to the pub. Meet a friend. Go out for dinner on your own. Just gradually build up the shift, him working at family stuff, you carving out breaks, and build it from there. Can you book at art class in the evening or similar? I do one that’s once a month on a Fri eve and it’s soooo good when you’ve been mumming all week. Also meant to say that I had a brilliant word of advice from my therapist recently. She said in this phase of life you just don’t get time as a couple at all. You therefore inevitably will be annoyed at each other and resent each other a lot. When you accept that its inevitable, it takes the weight out of it and makes it feel less weighty/final, and more an inevitable part of this phase of life. She was basically telling me to show moments of kindness, or touch, or whatever, even when I didn’t feel it, because it so naturally brews and is skewed the other way. I’ve defo found that v true and v helpful. That said this is NOT to say his lazyness isn’t the problem! It really is. But you really need to hammer away at it and work at it together. Tell him exactly how it’s made you feel. Over and over. (My husband does this pretty daily if he’s not getting breaks/exercise/anything he needs to not go mad if the balance is off). And work out a plan for what to do about it. Because it’ll be awful to go on with no break. You’ll go mad, get v bitter, and resent him. But a marriage is so worth throwing everything at. Imagine being in a marriage with him where he is helpful, pulling his weight, being the parent you’d love to see him be. I really hope you get there, marriage is bloody hard work, but you deserve him being helpful. Well done for doing the slog this long - you are amazing. Sending love and strength xxx