To want to move back to england with my 5 children

[tryingtogohome]

Hi sorry if this is all over the place

I live in Poland with my partner who is Polish and we have 5 boys 15 11 5 3 and 10 months and im pregnant again 25 weeks

I keep thinking about leaving him and going back to England but then i think im being stupid because ive been here so long and dont even know where id start anymore.

I dont really have anybody. No family. I grew up in care and havent spoken to anyone from my past for years and years.

Things have got worse between me and my partner. Hes always saying what a real man should be and boys shouldnt cry and things like that. My 15 year old argues with him constanly (constantly) now and the whole house feels tense all the time.

This is going to sound silly but i keep feeling like this baby is a girl and every time i say it he gets annoyed. Not shouting just annoyed and says he doesnt want a daughter and what would he do with a girl and says hopefully im wrong. Maybe im overreacting but it upsets me more than it should.

I dont know if its hormones.

I keep looking at Doncaster and Rotherham and Sheffield on my phone when everyone is asleep and then crying because i dont even know if my children could go to school there after living here all this time or where we would live.

I know people will say leave if youre unhappy but it isnt that easy when youve got this many children and no money and nowhere to go.

Am i being unreasonable wanting to go back to England or does this sound completly mad after 11 years away

I do speak Polish, not perfectly but enough for day to day things and appointments and schools etc. I didnt when i first came here but i do now.

I dont really have any friends though. I had a couple years ago but not anymore. Everyone sort of drifted away and i dont really go anywhere without the children now.
All of the children are his. They were all born in England apart from the baby who is 10 months. He came early at 31 weeks and was in hospital for a while and thats part of whats panicing me this time because im pregnant again and keep worrying the same thing will happen.

I dont know about passports off the top of my head because my head is all over the place today. The older boys definitely have British passports. I think the younger ones do as well but I'd have to check.

Something happened yesterday that i cant stop thinking about. I went out with the baby and when i got back my partner had shaved my 3 year olds hair off. He had lovely little curls and now half his head is basically shaved. He said it was only hair and he was messing about but my little boy was crying and didnt want anyone looking at him.

Maybe that sounds stupid compared to bigger problems but it really upset me. Hes only 3.

You should make plans to leave your husband but stay in Poland. It would be unfair to take his children away from him to another country. Unfortunately with 6 children life is going to be v difficult on your own until they are older. I’m assuming he has a very good job to support you all. Will he pay child support?

If the op uses dishonest means to move the children to the uk and keep them here the father can apply for them to be returned and because of the Hague convention they most likely will be returned to Poland. Add on to that Poland may then also refuse the op a visa to even visit them. For her own sake the op must deal with this in Poland

It will be difficult to leave Poland with the children without his consent. Even if he consents you will have to find a way that he can have contact with his children.

If you are coming to the UK to give birth you can tell the Dr/ midwife at the hospital that you do not have control of your contraception (it will also flag you as a risk for domestic violence or under coercive control) and can ask or in some cases will be offered for a contraceptive coil to be placed after delivery and the DP will never be told, as it doesn't require a daily pill or regular appointments they can be placed and left for upto 10 years without the DP even knowing it exists.

What are you going to do when you get here regarding housing, providing for your children and work? Housing is in very short supply and is expensive. We have high cost of living and a dead jobs market. Nursery costs are high and even with the funded hours it is still expensive. You may be better finding a women's aid style charity in Poland and staying there. Especially if you have no connections here but some loose ones there.

I'm so sorry OP. It sounds like your best option is to leave him and stay in Poland. Or persuade him to move to England, but it sounds like he won't be persuaded.

What is the safety net like in Poland for a single mother with 6 kids? Is there housing? Benefits?

As your kids get older you will have more time to make friends and get out.

I asked AI about this OP and this is what it said:

Yes, you can move back to the UK from Poland with your children, but your legal right to do so depends entirely on whether both parents consent to the relocation and what visas your family requires.

Under international law (such as the 1980 Hague Convention), you cannot legally remove a child from their country of "habitual residence" (in this case, Poland) permanently without the written consent of everyone who holds parental responsibility.

If both parents agree: The move can proceed smoothly. It is highly recommended to get a written, signed agreement or a formal parenting plan.

If the other parent disagrees: You will need to apply to the Polish family court for permission to relocate the children before you travel. Moving the children without the other parent's consent or a court order can be treated as child abduction.

One more thing - a new law came in this year which means that anyone who is a UK citizen MUST enter the UK on a UK passport. You can no longer travel here on a foreign passport if you are a UK citizen, so if your DC are UK citizens you must get them all passports before you come here. If you're unsure about who has what and whether they're still valid - check now and get it sorted out.

It sounds like you're unmarried and not in employment? Do you have any money?
The best option is likely break up and stay living in Poland, but this might not be possible if you can't get somewhere to live.

I know two women living in a country they don't want to be in, due to having a kid with a man then breaking up.

You cannot just arrive back in the UK and claim benefits, including child benefit. You’ll need to pass habitual residence test and prove you are a permanent resident. That takes time. It is irrelevant that your children are UK citizens, you cannot just remove them from their country of residence without their father’s permission. Likewise use of the NHS to give birth without being a citizen won’t be possible, or shouldn’t be. Midwives etc cannot help you kidnap your children, ultimately that is what you’ll be doing. I know women who have had the police turn up and remove their children and return them to the country they were removed from. Some advice on this thread is simply not true and dangerous.

You say that you have nobody in the Uk so where do you stay when you come over to have your children ?

Op you need to get them all uk passports.
if you separate in Poland what financial assstance would you get if any as a single mum who can’t work due to maternity leave? Do you co - own your home? Would he pay child maintenance? You’re not married so that may impact your rights. You really need to speak to a polish lawyer.

if you separate in Poland and he is just an every other weekend dad then you’d have a strong argument to move to the uk.

think about how happy your children would be in the uk, do you think happier?
do you have anyone you could stay with? I’m not sure what happens if you get them all on a plane and present as homeless to the council.

Don’t put dads name on the bc for the baby at least

Op is dad’s name on the bc for all children? If not he has no rights

Sadly you might not also be entitled to homelessness support by a council.

Hi op you really are in s shit situation your eldest is probably getting into trouble because of his father there relationship sounds awful. Op I would ring someone in the uk for advice women’s aid or shelter you are in an abusive relationship. your sons hair mattered to him and your dh had no problem shaving it he’s probably traumatised by this. Does he hurt you physically? He doesn’t sound like he is going to welcome a daughter can you get a scan to see if it’s a girl?

I completely agree.

It feels very unfair on the dad and children involved.

I also don’t know how OP would cope with 6 kids, 3 under 5 with no support.

Much better to focus on separating and staying in Poland for a couple of years and have the eldest get through his GCSEs etc and then think about a move.

It would be way too much for the kids to deal with their parents separating, moving countries, going to a new school, speaking a different language and having different cultural norms etc.

It would be different if her DP was abusive and she needed to flee but the relationship can’t be that bad if she’s pregnant again.

Can you quote the Polish law that you are relying on for this?

Hey. Im also british in Poland. You need to think of the legal problems here. You could get done for child aduction if he complains about you taking the kids. There are some facebook groups for brits in poland who may have better advice. Brits in poland and Brytyjczycy w Polsce. These groups have a few divorced britihs women so will be able to help :)

Just want to add if you have been out of the UK for several years you won't be able to claim benefits in the UK without jumping through several hoops. Will you have funds available to find yourself permanent accommodation before attempting to meet the habitual residency test for Universal Credit etc?

I agree with this. I don’t think you’d be better off in the UK with 5 boys and a baby and not knowing anyone than in Poland with all those kids and knowing a few people. It sucks. I would try to speak to a Polish women’s charity and see if you can get some advice about where you stand legally if you want to move back to the UK with the kids. I also know a couple of women stuck abroad as they won’t leave their children there and they can’t legally bring them home. It’s tragic and too many women walk into this situation not realising 🙁

I'm sorry you are such a difficult situation OP.
Here's the advice from Hague Mothers - file:///Users/home/Downloads/Advice-for-Mothers-ENGLISH-12.pdf - basically you can only leave with your husband's permission (that's still the case even if you divorce). As others have said, if you leave with the children your husband can bring a Hague petition against you for 'wrongful removal' and the children would be returned.

The situation you are in is known as being a 'stuck' parent. There's a brilliant charity that supports stuck parents globally - definitely worth contacting them for advice: https://www.globalarrk.org/

To all those telling the OP to just come to the UK, please check out the facts about the Hague Convention. It's brutal.

As Lawyer Anna Kerr puts it:
"On the current operation of the law, once a woman conceives a child, regardless
of the father’s subsequent level of involvement or conduct, she has unwittingly
traded her right to liberty of movement and the freedom to choose her own place
of residence if she wants to retain custody of her child."

when ive come back to England to have the babies we usually stay in an Airbnb. My partners brother and sister still live in England and his mum does as well although shes quite frail now. His brother and sister usually help with the children while we're at the hospital.

With my 3 year old we ended up staying a bit longer than planned because he has DiGeorge syndrome and they wanted to do extra checks and appointments before he could leave. My partner wasnt happy about it at all and kept saying we should just go back.

The plan was always to have this baby in England too if possible. Thats still the plan really. The problem is the baby is due in September and all the children should be back at school by then. I genuinely dont know how that would work.

And im worried because my youngest came at 31 weeks and what if this baby does as well? I keep thinking about it.

A few people are talking as though i just dont want to be with him anymore and want to run off to England. Thats not really it.

Its how he treats me and the children. I know im not explaining it very well.

Before i found out i was pregnant i was talking about getting a job. I really wanted to. Even part time. i thought it would be good for me to get out of the house and be around other adults again.

I told him that and he wasnt keen at all.

The more i think about things the more i realise how isolated ive become. I dont really go anywhere without the children.

And its not just my oldest im worried about. My 11 year old has started repeating things his dad says. Even my 5 year old does sometimes. Things about boys not crying or calling things gay if they dont like them.

When i pull them up on it my partner just laughs and says they're only joking or thats how boys talk.

Maybe im being over sensitve but i dont think a 5 year old should be saying things like that.

As for money and housing and benefits honestly i dont know. Thats part of why i posted because my head is spinning with all the practical stuff.

I know England isnt some magic solution where everything suddenly becomes fine. I do understand that.

I just know that things dont feel right anymore and havent for quite a while.

Do you have the children privately?

because you wouldn’t be able to access the NHS unless you can show you are resident…

Why do you travel to England to give birth? I can’t possibly imagine being heavily pregnant and hoping on a plane just to give birth in England? Why do you do it?

I don't think anyone here thinks he treats you and the kids well. I certainly don't. It doesn't mean you can just fly back to the UK though. There are some very helpful posts here about the Hague Convention which set out the situation. You need some legal advice which explains this all to you so you can start evaluating your options.

Yeah why OP? and unless you are having a pre planned c section, which would be hard to arrange from Poland, how do you know exactly when to come over to England to give birth?! Or do you just come over around and due date and wait?

OP what is the reason for separating and trying to move country and all the stress that comes with moving schools and trying to find an home and job etc.

Rather than just separating and staying in Poland?