AIBU to question repeated GCSE resits instead of alternative college pathways?

[Windyday3]

I have two friends with an 18 year old young person each
Both these DC went to the local school and failed maths and English GCSE
So from there they both went to the local college,did a foundation course and resat both GCSEs
Unfortunately neither passed Maths and English
So neither were allowed to move to the next level of their course.
Both had to start a second foundation course in a subject they didn't want to do and were doing resits in maths and English.
They have both just resat the exams recently
But if they fail again,in September they will both start a third foundation course in another subject they don't want to do ,while they resit maths and English.
This time next year they will both be 19 and will have to leave college.
They both have one more shot at passing and will end up in a years time leaving college with three Foundation courses and . hopefully maths and English GCSE if they pass.
But how does that equip them to get a job??
They will of had three years at college and come out with three Foundation courses,two in subjects they are not interested in .
Neither have an EHCP ,but both have ADHD .
Why is there not a different path for children that can't get maths and English GCSE ???
Why have they been made to waste 3 years doing courses that are not going to equip them for a job , because it's so important they get these maths and English qualifications.
I do get they are important
I'm just questioning why there is not different paths , because education should not be a one size fits all
They will of had 3 years at college when they leave at age 19
That 3 years could of been spent getting them a qualification that would of actually helped them get a job.
Who's benefiting from them both being made to do 3 Foundation courses in 3 different subjects..the children certainly aren't ,as it qualifies them for nothing

It’s music/MT/performing arts that my son & his friends did.

One young man who repeatedly failed maths GCSE did a Masters at RAM (alongside passing A level music & a Btec

others did very well in their Btecs.

Woah, steady on there. In your rush to offence, you’ve missed that I am entirely on your daughter’s side. As you say, bright as a button but failed a GCSE in English. There is no world where that should happen. So there is clearly something wrong with the way it is assessed for young people like her. If she isn’t able to manage a written exam, there should be an alternative route for her to gain that qualification. Same with geometry and algebra. There is a way of teaching it and assessing it that would get her a pass. But that takes effort and schools just don’t want to do it.

That's a shame. I'm in Northern Ireland and college means technical college/ tech. One of my children is there doing an extended btech (level 3 so a level equivalent) and if you don't have maths and/ or English you do essential skills. You can also do essential skills alongside a level 2 course. (I don't think they do level 1 courses.)

I can't think of any schools locally which let you back for a levels without both maths and English. (We don't have standalone 6th forms.)

It's not schools. Her school went above and beyond to help her.

But the system is GCSEs and written exams. And no progress until you pass - or drop out.

She doesn't need algebra or geometry to succeed in life. I love maths and find it easy, got an A grade (back in the day!) for GCSE Maths without breaking a sweat. I have never used algebra or geometry in my work or day to day.life. My brother works in a scientific field and uses advanced maths every day.

Yes, a plumber probably needs to understand gradients. No problem. Include working out gradients in their vocational training.

Don't put an artificial barrier in front of young people. I can't see a situation where DD will need 80% of the content of GCSE Maths to succeed in her career, which will probably build on her great people skills.

My brother - brilliant at maths - has crap people skills.

I never passed my maths gcse yet i have a degree. No one cares what your gcse grades are once you're classed as a mature student. I suspect a lot of tradespeople or people like me with degrees may have never passed gcse English or maths at the acceptable level.

Let's flip it. Let's base the education system on vocational skills.

You can't progress academically unless you are good at plumbing, and reach a certain level of ability in plumbing. Or performing arts. Not just aspects of plumbing or performing arts that relate to your academic pathway. But an.overall ability in the practical as well as theoretical aspects.

Does that make sense?

If you can't master a dance routine you can't do A level maths.

Maths isn’t about learning just the maths though. The problem solving and analytical skills it gives you are transferable. Having that GCSE signals your ability to do that. I have no doubt she has those skills but the system needs her to be able to demonstrate that in a way that doesn’t suit her. That’s where the system is entirely wrong. We have a subject called “maths applications” here in Scotland which gives an alternative maths qualification for those who prefer not to do pure mathematics, which makes a lot of sense.

The issue is how the subjects are taught (or not) for many students. Schools do not have teachers with degrees in these subjects, so often the subjects are taught poorly by those that use rote to teach and that just doesn't work. I have a degree, post grad qualifications coming out of my ear's and guess which O Level I failed, but I use maths most days in my career and hobbies, plus very astute financially, so it was not the subject or ability to use it, but failure to pass the exam in it and I know, with a great deal of hindsight, the teacher was dire! I truly believe our schools fail to teach the fundamentals well and too often set up students to fail. The real question is why nobody is questioning the failure of 11 year's of compulsory schooling to prepare young people for their next step, whether FE or beyond.

If your previous achievement is a grade three the govt mandates that you must do a GCSE or the college will lose funding ( EHCP can be exempt)

But i don't think any form of maths assessment is the be all and end all of proving problem solving and analytical skills. They can be demonstrated in a vocational course rather than as abstract 'maths' skills.

Which is my point. Maths and English GCSEs are proof of some generic skills. Great.

But they should not be a barrier to young people accessing training where they can demonstrate the specific skills they need for that vocational area.

It's bloody ridiculous

Why do they have to do English and Maths alongside a course they don’t want to do? Colleges offer those GCSEs as standalone in either day time or evening classes without having to do another foundation course alongside it.

They might have to pay a small fee for it, but it’s better than being stuck on a course they have no interest in completing and gives them more time to focus on the GCSEs

Because that's the only way to access training and college. There aren't jobs for 16/17 year old instead. It's college or nothing.

Have they not considered an apprenticeship, wherein they take Functional Maths and English in tandem?

But they could take the GCSEs at college without needing the other course? Or doesn’t that count as further education?

Wrong. Not to mention lacking in understanding of how GCSEs are graded. The current grading system doesn’t allow the vast majority to achieve a grade 4.

There aren't that many of them, and you need to apply in advance. It is very competitive and there aren't enough for all young people who want one. And they prioritise the more academically able because they can be selective.

DD was predicted a GCSE English and Maths pass, which would have enabled her to do a level 3 course. She needed to pass one of 3 GCSEs (English literature or language or maths). When it turned out she failed all three all the level 2 courses and apprenticeships were full.

So she was a NEET, not by choice. The LA came through with tutoring because she has an EHCP and I threatened to get our MP involved.

After a Functional Skills English pass with tutoring she is aceing her vocational course, but will be amazed if she passes GCSE Maths resit. Maybe we live in the age of miracles.

No. You need over 12 hours. English and maths are each given 3 hours. And you need to be on a registered course to access them.

That’s a bloody stupid rule!

Ours don't. Or only for those aged 19+

Yep.

My son is only Year 5 right now and I'm already 99% sure this will be him due to missing a huge chunk of school because of medical reasons. I asked if he could repeat a year due to the circumstances and was looked at like I had 3 heads despite the fact that there is no possible way he can catch up on everything he has missed.

Maths is the main issue for him. He is so far behind that he largely does different work because Year 5 maths is just too much.

Yep.

The foundation English and Maths alongside college IS the alternative path. There’s no additional path for ‘cannot pass basic English and maths if their life depends on it’.

They have to be capable of basic English and Maths to be qualified in English and Maths. If they aren’t capable then they don’t get jobs that need them to be.

Can you hire a tutor to catch him up over summer?

He's had one for a while. He missed the majority of Year 3 & Year 4. He's back at school full time now since Year 5 but has regular appointments which take him out of school so his attendance is well below average.

I feel like every time the tutor fills in some gaps, more appear.