AIBU to question repeated GCSE resits instead of alternative college pathways?

[Windyday3]

I have two friends with an 18 year old young person each
Both these DC went to the local school and failed maths and English GCSE
So from there they both went to the local college,did a foundation course and resat both GCSEs
Unfortunately neither passed Maths and English
So neither were allowed to move to the next level of their course.
Both had to start a second foundation course in a subject they didn't want to do and were doing resits in maths and English.
They have both just resat the exams recently
But if they fail again,in September they will both start a third foundation course in another subject they don't want to do ,while they resit maths and English.
This time next year they will both be 19 and will have to leave college.
They both have one more shot at passing and will end up in a years time leaving college with three Foundation courses and . hopefully maths and English GCSE if they pass.
But how does that equip them to get a job??
They will of had three years at college and come out with three Foundation courses,two in subjects they are not interested in .
Neither have an EHCP ,but both have ADHD .
Why is there not a different path for children that can't get maths and English GCSE ???
Why have they been made to waste 3 years doing courses that are not going to equip them for a job , because it's so important they get these maths and English qualifications.
I do get they are important
I'm just questioning why there is not different paths , because education should not be a one size fits all
They will of had 3 years at college when they leave at age 19
That 3 years could of been spent getting them a qualification that would of actually helped them get a job.
Who's benefiting from them both being made to do 3 Foundation courses in 3 different subjects..the children certainly aren't ,as it qualifies them for nothing

I've got level 3, level 4, degree level and postgraduate level qualifications and I don't have maths GCSE.

My Dd did A levels alongside maths resit. Never passed maths and off to Uni in September (unconditional offer). She’s done alright without it.

At age 18 ?
Plus it takes years to get
They only have untill age 19 then they have to leave
It wouldn't come through in time

Yes, at 18. It is still worth it even if they have to appeal refusal to assess, refusal to issue and then content. EHCPs can last until 25, or 26 in some circumstances. They wouldn’t have to leave at 19 with an EHCP.

I was actually having this conversation with a very good friend this morning and that is what she explained to me about how the system was

But it won't come through in time ,they are already 18 ,and no guarantee they would get it

You don’t have to leave at 19 if you start the course at 18 - even if you turn 19 in October that year - CB is also extended past 18 if in full time FE

Even if they have to appeal every step of the way, it is possible for an EHCP to come through well before they turn 25.

They may have to appeal, but from what you have posted it certainly sounds possible to secure an EHCP.

Well that’s weird. So if you’re a 3 and can’t get to a 4, you’re kind of stuck?

It's appalling.
If you can't pass a GCSE in school in year 11 with a specialist maths teacher your chances of managing it in a college are slim.
DS is a maths teacher and frequently rants about the stupidity of pushing some kids to do a GCSE which is beyond them.
Far, far better would be a practical test on basis Maths and English including skills like measuring, working out money, filling in forms.

The situation you have described is crazy and just awful.

Our son needed to resit English and maths. He was allowed to start a level 3 BTec and was told as long as he passed his first module he could stay.
I doubt know if his college was unusually forward thinking in that regard

He got a grade 5 straight off on his English but passed Maths on his third try there. He completed his BTec with two distinctions and a merit and it would have been madness to not let him progress.
I am grateful that he was expected to resit maths as we knew he would get there in the end. I didn't realise that young people were being held back on foundation courses elsewhere when they were perfectly capable of progressing in their chosen qualification..

I know it's possible to sit functional skills independently and I wonder if that's something worth pursuing.

My husband does not have a maths GCSE. He does however have a degree in computer science and a healthy career in the IT industry.

People seem quite short sighted these days in recognising ability that goes beyond being able to jump through a hoop during a certain time period in your life when you were young and dealing with lots of other complexities.

I think the first November sitting is particularly problematic. College lessons in maths and English were slow to get off the ground in our experience, so our son had only about 3 of those before resitting after a long summer break.
This might be a good time to insert functional skills 1 or 2. (Though I think these can be sat when ready, unlike GCSEs where there are only the two sittings)

Having said that our daughter was working at grade 4 GCSE level in year 9 and for complex reasons was assessed for FS, her score didn't reflect her ability because they are quite different.

She would much rather be given some algebra than lots of words!

But it isn’t basic is it?

GCSE Maths is decimals, fractions, geometry, algebra, linear equations, probability….

GCSE English is critical reading, drawing inferences, summarising ideas, using language creatively, recognising structural form…..

You don’t need to be able to do all of that to be a plumber or a hairdresser and you certainly won’t use any of it in those kinds of professions.

The should be doing functional skills we offer them from 14-19. They could do it online at pass functional skills if they are not offered it at college

I think I’ve said this on here before but I really think that in the middle of Year 9 all kids should take a general test, a bit like an IQ test, and those who score well above the pass mark are put into the normal GCSE track and those who score well below should be put into the track for a Level 1 General Education Certificate. The ones in the middle could decide with teachers and parents which track is better for them. The certificate would be awarded based on classwork and you could score pass, merit or distinction. That way, everyone who achieves at least a pass would be able to move on to a Level 2 course at college. People forget that GCSEs grade 1-3 are equivalent of a Level 1 qualification, but those who get those grades aren’t allowed to move on to Level 2, which is what grades 4+ are. So kids toil away for two years trying to gain their Level 2 qualifications only to fail but then have to go backwards to study at a Level 1 standard.

But my son, who didn’t get 4s in English and maths, did a Level 1 course in his first college year and then was allowed to move onto Level 2 in that same subject. He still hasn’t got the English and maths but I think he would be allowed to do Level 3 in the same subject if he passes the Level 2 course. But he’s decided he wants to change to a different course, which he won’t be able to do Level 3 in but I’m not sure yet if he can start at 2 or will have to go down to 1.

Such a demoralising system.

My DC’s secondary comprehensive allowed the bottom maths set to take functional skills - I think they took level 1 in y10 and level 2 in y11 (as long as they passed L1). DS was in the bottom maths set and had functional skills level 2 under his belt before taking GCSE - which rather to everyone’s astonishment, he also managed to pass first time.

I honestly think the confidence boost and reduction in pressure of passing the FS helped with the GCSE.

Personally I think a pass in any GCSE requiring extended writing should “count” for eligibility for further study purposes, and any “numerate” course should count for maths.
So for eg a 4 in business studies or IT could do for either. Kids need to be able to write, not to write about poetry. I know a few who have passed say, history or RE and not English Language, and have ended up stuck doing retakes as described.

That’s a college choice. I work at a college and we are mandated to do the resits in gcse but we only take a student on a course if we feel they are adequately equipped to progress to the second year, irrespective of their English and maths grades. For example a student can study a specific subject and have prior quads and knowledge meaning they can pass even if their English and maths skills are struggling.

Funding for College is only for 2 years but some times we can take a student for a third year with reduced funding in extenuating circumstances. The college here seem to have let them down unfortunately.

This defines the levels for qualifications in the uk:

https://www.gov.uk/what-different-qualification-levels-mean/list-of-qualification-levels.

The term 'foundation' is used for different levels in different places though - many degree courses have a foundation year for students who lack a particular prerequsite, and that would sit at level 3, maybe slightly higher in aspects tailored to the specific courses its preparing students for.

I only know as few posters on here over the years have hit this issue and ended up in re-take hell with their teens when they'd rather have done the functional exam.

Though sometime the funcational exam doesn't suit well either or isn't even offered in their area.

But yes if they can't get the 4 they can get stuck.

On what grounds?

'Not being very academic' is not grounds for a EHCP.

DD has SEMH needs and some language processing issues. Mostly resolved by now, but very much needed at secondary school. She hasn't needed to access any of the support at College, but it's there if it is needed. She probably wouldn't qualify for one if she was assessed now - her only issue is that she doesn't understand maths.

A lot do but theyre not always appropriate for low ability learners as the wording is so complex.

Not as complex as GCSEs which is why most Colleges offer them for adult learners. It's only the 16-18 year olds that get stuck with GCSE resits.

Level 2 maths functional skills is harder than foundation gcse. Its more suited to adults as they may be more familiar with context. E.g plastering a wall

My brother had the same issue with his English GCSE. Passed maths but not English so he couldn’t complete the course he desperately wanted to do at college. He’s now working and doing ok financially but it isn’t what he wanted which is kind of sad. He’s bright in his own way but English wasn’t his forte. Funny because I’m an American lit lecturer! Just shows how much people can diverge, even siblings… We both contribute to society though, just in different ways!