AIBU to question repeated GCSE resits instead of alternative college pathways?

[Windyday3]

I have two friends with an 18 year old young person each
Both these DC went to the local school and failed maths and English GCSE
So from there they both went to the local college,did a foundation course and resat both GCSEs
Unfortunately neither passed Maths and English
So neither were allowed to move to the next level of their course.
Both had to start a second foundation course in a subject they didn't want to do and were doing resits in maths and English.
They have both just resat the exams recently
But if they fail again,in September they will both start a third foundation course in another subject they don't want to do ,while they resit maths and English.
This time next year they will both be 19 and will have to leave college.
They both have one more shot at passing and will end up in a years time leaving college with three Foundation courses and . hopefully maths and English GCSE if they pass.
But how does that equip them to get a job??
They will of had three years at college and come out with three Foundation courses,two in subjects they are not interested in .
Neither have an EHCP ,but both have ADHD .
Why is there not a different path for children that can't get maths and English GCSE ???
Why have they been made to waste 3 years doing courses that are not going to equip them for a job , because it's so important they get these maths and English qualifications.
I do get they are important
I'm just questioning why there is not different paths , because education should not be a one size fits all
They will of had 3 years at college when they leave at age 19
That 3 years could of been spent getting them a qualification that would of actually helped them get a job.
Who's benefiting from them both being made to do 3 Foundation courses in 3 different subjects..the children certainly aren't ,as it qualifies them for nothing

The only reason DD wasn't a NEET is because she had an EHCP, and I 'advocated strongly' for provision - the LA provided tutoring.

The level 2 courses were full, level 3 wouldn't accept her (despite already having level 3 qualifications in her vocational area!) because she failed English and Maths.

If it wasn't for the EHCP she would have spent a year NEET, then have to do a level 2 course and resit English and Maths. NOT by choice, but because the system wouldn't provide anything.

It should be changed so that if someone fails English or Maths on the first try, they should sit Functional Skills Level 2. If they fail that, they should do Functional Skills Level 1, then 2. If they pass Level 2, they should be allowed to decide if they want to use it as a stepping stone to a GCSE resit or not.

Resitting within 6 months only makes sense if you missed a 4 by a very narrow margin (or if you truly had much better teaching and work ethic in the resit round) and even then, Level 2 Functional Skills would be a great back up before you try again.

Endlessly resitting Maths and English GCSEs does not equip young people for a job.

I have friends who left school without qualifications and they have worked all their lives. One works in supported living, another is an assistant midwife, another is a mechanic. All good at their jobs, and literate/ numerate enough to do their job.

There aren't many jobs where you don't use at least basic maths and English.

Which is why there is so much focus on getting people these fundamental qualifications - it is a basic requirement of the educational system to get people proficient in these.

You talk about "learning a trade" as if that is devoid of any requirement for maths or English. But of course people in trades need maths and English in order to be able to operate effectively.

The thing is there are always going to be some people who fall through the cracks in any system no matter how well it is designed. That doesn't necessarily mean the entire system needs a shake up, but it does probably mean there needs to be better provision for people when they fall outside the system.

Have you explored any alternative learning courses ? A bit like driving, some people just need the material to be presented/taught in a different way to what is done in the mainstream in order to succeed at the subject.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Sadly the UK education system says no. It's unbelievable really when it's actually a very easy thing to allow.

Problems like you're son's having take me way back into the 1960s and the pros/cons about 'going comprehensive'. We did away with the Grammar schools and introduced the Comprehensives in which the curriculum was a version of the 'O' level for everyone. The CSE which ran alongside the 'O' level allowed those who were not suited to the more abstract side of Maths to get a qualification that enabled them to get a job. It seems now that they can't do that! I recall coaching a friend's son for his Maths GCSE, necessary for his Music degree course, plaiting fog might have been easier. He did pass after, I think 4 attempts.

@Springersrock and others: you can do Functional Skills Level 2 privately, for example: https://passfunctionalskills.co.uk/functional-skills-level-2/
You shouldn't have to, of course, but if your college doesn't offer it, I would definitely consider this.

This makes a lot of sense and by the sound of it is the very thing needed to rewind and fill in the gaps in learning. The fact that the failure rate for resits is so high is evidence enough that the current system isn't fit for purpose.

Any vocational qualification tests the English and Maths skills needed for that vocational skill.

That's different from passing English or Maths GCSE.

If you want to be a child care worker you need to be able to write accurate notes, but don't need to be able to do geometry.

The real question is why are colleges not offering Functional Skills to everyone and insisting on only GCSE's instead?
Is there some Ofsted thing or league table skewing the incentive for the colleges so that they only care about as many GCSE passes as possible?

Either you have got the wrong end of the stick / friends aren't being honest or the college is nuts. There is no need to stay at Foundation level generally unless the young person isn't capable of moving upwards (and they would normally have an EHCP in that case).

DD missed y11, came out with 4 x grade 3. She in theory could have started at level 2 but actually she did

• level 1 work based
• level 1 theory based
• level 2 work based

If you get 3s in maths / English you are made by funding requirements to 'work towards' the GCSE, which most colleges take to mean resit the GCSE and not bother with functional skills.

Yes
But there should be ways for young people to succeed in a job without them
And there should be more accessible ways to get a qualification in them
Different training courses, different ways to assess skills
Or are you content for any young person without maths and English GCSE to just claim UC their whole life ????

If you get 3s it is a funding requirement to work towards GCSE (unless you have the FS). The colleges any often don't want to run classes for both FS Level 2 and GCSE.

DD did FS English Level 2 independently to escape the GCSE.

Came out of school with a 2
Every time taking it at college keeps getting a 1

We did look into it, but to be honest, my daughter was so utterly sick of maths and as uni accepted her with her grade 3 maths GCSE so she decided leave it for now.

She may come back to it again in the future and we’ll do it privately then.

It’s just crazy to me that this has become a block for kids achieving.

I don’t think it’s individual college policies, it’s more a funding thing

In which case college should be supporting FS Level 1 followed by FS Level 2.

The issue with only getting a grade 1 is it implies (which may or may not be true) that their written ability is very poor and not really good enough for even Level 1 courses.

So that is what needs changing.
Fund everyone to do FS maths and English if they want to, instead of GCSE, and require the colleges to provide it.

Wouldn't it be a struggle for them to move on to most things if they cannot get the hang on v basic English and maths? Most jobs require a basic level of competence - I am including trades in this.

Because some people don’t seem to understand that their offspring not going to uni is not a slight on them as parents.

A relative of mine was expected from a young age to go to uni because her mother had social climbing aspirations. She wasn’t naturally bright and had to work harder than her peers to get through A Levels. Her results weren’t good enough for her first choice of degree and she ended up doing a subject she wasn’t bothered by and she hated the job so gave it up and bummed around for most of her adult life.

There are better things than uni for a lot of people.

I think this is the college. My friend's DS didn't pass either although he got a few other GCSE passes. He did a Level 1 course and resits, then a Level 2 without having passed the resits. Another friend's DS passed Maths but not English and had a few other passes so he went straight into a Level 2 with English resit. Then Level 3 I believe. Both in full time work now in fields of interest.

Not necessarily you can do A-levels at college and also vocational courses. Not all schools have a sixth form.

This seems like a really poor college, they should be offering function skills for those who can't pass the GCSE. I would have been looking to move them elsewhere.

Also here they will still let you start another higher level course here if you have enough other GCSE, then you study English and maths alongside it.

If you read my post, you would have seen that i said you can do a levels at College, as well as vocational courses. So 'College' doesn't necessarily mean 'aspiring to university '.

All the Colleges in our area offer Functional Skills to adults i.e. over 18. Before then only GCSE resits. So you can't just find a 'better' college...

I work with young people in the post 16 arena and the loss of FS at colleges for ALL students is a huge issue - especially for those with additional support needs - slowly crawling from gcse 2 to 3- to 2 again because they are fed up of it - attendance drops, kids drop out.
many apprenticeships want GCSE at a 4 for both so they end up NEET.
this is where a pre-apprenticeship is a good option - l1 vocational qualification with functional skills - but if they have already got a level 2 at college then funding is an issue.
lack of access to qualified careers advisers is also an issue,
For NEETs there is usually support via the local authority but many options are 18+
and then at 19 of course you can do FS - online if needed - totally free! But that’s a bit late 🙄

Have your friends/their DC considered requesting an EHCNA? They may have to appeal, but it sounds like EHCP would be helpful.

We employ many brilliant plumbers and gas engineers who have not passed any GCSE's at higher than a Grade 3.

These days the college that we use for our apprenticeships will put them through Functional Skills until they are 18 but they are all absolutely fine to do Level 3 qualifications regardless.

The uni/conservatoire my so is at only asks for a Grade 4 English, you don't have to have maths at all for their courses.