AIBU to question repeated GCSE resits instead of alternative college pathways?

[Windyday3]

I have two friends with an 18 year old young person each
Both these DC went to the local school and failed maths and English GCSE
So from there they both went to the local college,did a foundation course and resat both GCSEs
Unfortunately neither passed Maths and English
So neither were allowed to move to the next level of their course.
Both had to start a second foundation course in a subject they didn't want to do and were doing resits in maths and English.
They have both just resat the exams recently
But if they fail again,in September they will both start a third foundation course in another subject they don't want to do ,while they resit maths and English.
This time next year they will both be 19 and will have to leave college.
They both have one more shot at passing and will end up in a years time leaving college with three Foundation courses and . hopefully maths and English GCSE if they pass.
But how does that equip them to get a job??
They will of had three years at college and come out with three Foundation courses,two in subjects they are not interested in .
Neither have an EHCP ,but both have ADHD .
Why is there not a different path for children that can't get maths and English GCSE ???
Why have they been made to waste 3 years doing courses that are not going to equip them for a job , because it's so important they get these maths and English qualifications.
I do get they are important
I'm just questioning why there is not different paths , because education should not be a one size fits all
They will of had 3 years at college when they leave at age 19
That 3 years could of been spent getting them a qualification that would of actually helped them get a job.
Who's benefiting from them both being made to do 3 Foundation courses in 3 different subjects..the children certainly aren't ,as it qualifies them for nothing

So you wouldn't be able to move on to more advanced plumbing skills without English and Maths GCSEs, no matter how good you are at the basic plumbing.

Where we are you can do a level 3 with either English or Maths, alongside resitting the one you don't gave.

But there should be some way of youngsters getting a qualification of some sort without maths and English GCSE
Three years at college and not qualified for anything is a terrible waste of time
And how are they supposed to get a job after

Yes we have that it's called vocational training I did it and learnt fashion design I meant you can't graduate high school without those subjects passed I

I’m really surprised that functional skills aren’t being offered until 19. Some kids just aren’t going to pass GCSE, no matter how hard they try.
To me, maybe one possibly two attempts at resit on Nov then June, and FS after that if they aren’t successful, would make more sense.

My DN has got zero GCSE’s or maths / English quals. He was able to do a level 2 apprenticeship in bricklaying at 16 which he passed and is now doing really well in employment. He’s a hard worker and loves his job but has absolutely no interest in academics at all.

I agree, it's ridiculous

So what happens to young people who cannot graduate high school? Surely they should be able to access training?

That's brilliant
So I don't understand why college is blocking them from level 2 in anything.
All I can think of is they need maybe to pass either one or the other ,but maybe it's because they can't pass either .
But both are getting very down with the situation

So you wouldn't be able to move on to more advanced plumbing skills without English and Maths GCSEs, no matter how good you are at the basic plumbing.

But you do need some knowledge of maths in order to be a plumber. Measuring the job and calculating materials must be part of advanced plumbing skills. If you aim to be self employed, you need to prepare quotes, keep accounts, deal with tax and NI.

I'm just wondering if it's always been like this ,or has things changed recently

A colleague's grand daughter was able to do functional skills instead of GCSEs at secondary school, because she was borderline for passing GCSE. Better a FS pass than a GCSE fail.

So it comes down to.policy decisions 😡

Mine all passed their GCSEs ,so id no idea this was the situation
And I guess other parents wouldn't realise either ,if their children were not stuck doing foundation courses and re sits

My friends son has had to leave a carpentry apprenticeship that he was doing really well in because he got stuck here.

He passed his English, but just couldn’t get maths. Without either grade 4 maths or level 2 functional skills, he couldn’t progress onto level 3. He couldn’t continue with his apprenticeship without moving on to level 3

Frustratingly, both the college and his employer would accept the level 2 functional skills instead of the GCSE, however, because he’d got a grade 3 in Maths, he was blocked from taking the functional skills.

He’s now a NEET that the government were wringing their hands about the other week.

My daughter also struggled to pass her Maths GCSE (she’s massively dyslexic), but absolutely thrived on the BTEC course, fortunately, her college let her do level 3 while still taking maths GCSE - and her uni also overlooked the maths GCSE. Again, wasn’t allowed to do the functional skills level 2 (despite them being much more suited to her style of learning and SEN) because she’d previously got a grade 3. She just had to keep taking the maths GCSE again and again and again

Our local college does offer level 2 functional skills for maths and English but only for those who got grade 2 or below in GCSE - I think that’s a funding thing rather than a local college policy though, so happens everywhere

They do that here as well - level 2 or 3 re-sits with English or maths.

Think you can also do a level 2 and then proceed to a level 3 even if fail re-takes though not sure about not getting level 2 in both english and maths GCSE.

What does the local area career service or college careers service suggest - can't be only teens in this situation.

Though I agree it's a strangle block to put in way of young teens who may just have other skills.

I'm sorry to hear this
The whole system needs a shake up asap

You can do TAFE course to get a diploma I did for hospitality

It probably isn’t practical but it would be better if some of the GCSE questions counted to functional maths or English. Then if those questions were passed even if there was not enough to get to the GCSE the candidate can go to next stage.

Not practical as presumably a different course and different entry requirements, exam board etc

Yes, but endlessly resitting GCSE maths and endlessly failing doesn't mean you can't learn the specific (and more limited) maths skills you need for plumbing. Those will be tested in the more advanced plumbing courses.

Exams don't improve learning. They test learning. They can be an incentive to work harder, or for schools to put in more support. But for the young people who have worked hard, and been given all possible support (including one to one tutoring) and still fail? What then? We keep refusing to provide the training they can benefit from?

Ok, so that is what we are talking about. There needs to be a route for young people that is the equivalent of your TAFE course that enables them to develop their vocational skills in their chosen area.

But that's nothing to do with GCSE maths I assume. The stuff in o levels certainly wasn't relevant to anything I've done in my adult life

You are not alone in thinking this.

This article from last August pretty much says exactly the same as you.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdj5y98302o

Not everyone is cut out for university anyway
Thats not the point
The point unless you have a grade 4 at maths and English or eqivalent the systerm mske s it very hard to move on to the next level whatever the chosen level is

How does that equip them to get a job
How does not having Maths and English @ GCSE help them get a job?
They’re fairly fundamental.

Ms Duffy told the BBC that when her exam board looked at the transcripts of pupils who had failed, "what's really clear is they're missing out on some of the fundamental Maths and English skills that they should be getting earlier on in their career.

"So we think there's an awful lot that needs doing in Key Stage 3 [between ages 11 and 14], and even before Key Stage 3, to make sure that they're getting these fundamental skills so that when they get to doing those GCSEs at 16, we don't have so many that are then going on to resit."

Catherine Sezen echoed this, and suggested some pupils are on a path to GCSE failure from as early as primary school.

"If you look at those students who are low achievers at the end of Key Stage 2 [aged 11], about 20% of those students [go on to] achieve a grade 4 at GCSE at 16," she said. "So, this is really quite embedded - it goes right back to reception and to nursery.

Key point and problem. If you miss something in the curriculum you are rarely given time to go back to those basics. You just have to redo the GCSE without the core knowledge and opportunity to revisit those issues.

My child who is autistic, has ADHD and dyslexia is also stuck in what we call the "Endless Circle of Hell" of GCSE maths and English resits.

They are unlikely to pass GCSEs at this stage in their life. They need to be able to do Functional skills maths and English. The college won't let them do that. It has to be GCSEs. Only those on the SEN life skills course can do Functional skills. They are not suited to the life skills course. They are more able than that.

My child has passed their level 1 and level 2 BTECs and have done very well.

They can read and write and do straightforward maths. This isn't what GCSE papers want though.

Without pulling any punches the endless resits have been, and continue to be damaging for their mental health and self esteem. They are now on antidepressants and have been seeing a psychotherapist as the Secondary school education system broke them.

The college maths and English lessons are dire. Full of teenagers who don't want to be there and teachers who know that these students are very unlikely to pass.

All I can hope is that at 19 we will have access to Functional skills somewhere and that they can still muster up some enthusiasm for learning after what they have been through.

The system is absolutely unfit for purpose for lower academic ability and SEN pupils who struggle but don't meet the criteria for specialist education settings.