AIBU to question repeated GCSE resits instead of alternative college pathways?

[Windyday3]

I have two friends with an 18 year old young person each
Both these DC went to the local school and failed maths and English GCSE
So from there they both went to the local college,did a foundation course and resat both GCSEs
Unfortunately neither passed Maths and English
So neither were allowed to move to the next level of their course.
Both had to start a second foundation course in a subject they didn't want to do and were doing resits in maths and English.
They have both just resat the exams recently
But if they fail again,in September they will both start a third foundation course in another subject they don't want to do ,while they resit maths and English.
This time next year they will both be 19 and will have to leave college.
They both have one more shot at passing and will end up in a years time leaving college with three Foundation courses and . hopefully maths and English GCSE if they pass.
But how does that equip them to get a job??
They will of had three years at college and come out with three Foundation courses,two in subjects they are not interested in .
Neither have an EHCP ,but both have ADHD .
Why is there not a different path for children that can't get maths and English GCSE ???
Why have they been made to waste 3 years doing courses that are not going to equip them for a job , because it's so important they get these maths and English qualifications.
I do get they are important
I'm just questioning why there is not different paths , because education should not be a one size fits all
They will of had 3 years at college when they leave at age 19
That 3 years could of been spent getting them a qualification that would of actually helped them get a job.
Who's benefiting from them both being made to do 3 Foundation courses in 3 different subjects..the children certainly aren't ,as it qualifies them for nothing

Studying maths English and a full time foundation course in a subject they don't want to do .. because they were not allowed to move up to the next level of the foundation course of their choice, despite getting excellent grades in it ,that they completed a year ago
It's hardly fair is it ?

There's a huge gap in provision for post 16s who still need GCSEs. I know of one college who offer a range of just GCSEs post 16, but it seems rare. Imo every college should offer this.

I have a send child that didn't manage yr 11 so didn't sit GCSEs. They'd be bored brainless on any low level college course they'd have to do to access maths and English but they can't just do maths and English. If you're not on roll at a school it's almost impossible to find somewhere that will take external candidates (not to mention the issues that in itself brings with asd young people who struggle with unfamiliar environments/people). I have no idea how they will get their GCSEs right now and they have an EHCP so an added layer of protection and it's still a nightmare.

That's mad. Surely if they'd done the gcse resit then the foubatoom course the next year they'd be in a much better place

Maths & English on their own don't count as full time. You currently get about 3 hrs in each, so that only makes 1 day equivalent weekly.
And anyway would be incredibly demotivating for most students, with no 'interesting' subject to do alongside. Attendance rates would be dire.

I agree with those above who have said it is a real fault of the funding rules. I know the 'aim' is to get more young people to get their GCSE passes by the end of college. But I think for many it is just disheartening and not being offered FS means they still leave without the important Level 2 passes. It needs an overhaul.

But it's not interesting..if it's not your choice
They did their choice in the first foundation course,they did really really well at it ,but failed the first lot of resits
So we're not allowed to proceed to the next level of their chosen course
They had to do another foundation course in a subject they didn't like
And if they don't pass the exams taken this week,they will start a third foundation course in September in another course they don't want to do

Sounds like they have been failed by the system and those around them.
No EHCPs. Not 'progressing' at college. No alternatives put in place.

Completely agree

What needs a re-think is that there are young people who despite having two (or three) bites at the cherry are failing the subject at GCSE level. I understand some children aren’t academically inclined but there are not particularly difficult subjects to get a pass in, so there is either a failure here of the way it is being taught, or the way it is being assessed. On the first fail there should be a review of why the person was struggling and a focus on the areas they were doing badly in, then the proper support given to help them. Even young people who aren’t particularly academic, could get through a GCSE in English and maths with the appropriate tutoring.

Appropriate tutoring
Both in the bottom sets for GCSEs at school
The bottom sets where the kids are a nightmare and throw stuff ,where teachers don't bother to turn up ,where they were left to watch stuff on phones .where the noise is horrendous and you can't think straight
And at college where they have had 3 different teachers in one year .
Where many times the teacher has not turned up or walked out because they are fed up of the noise
Any child wanting to learn in those environments, would struggle.

The way to get young people engaged in education is NOT forcing them to study maths & English & nothing else in a form that’s inaccessible to them & it’s also not forcing the, to study something in college they have no interest in.

several of the young people who were at college with my son were able to progress in a subject that interested them and consequently they have all done well (after being deemed a failure at school) and progressed, some to uni, some to the workplace.

That’s Michael Gove et al’s educational reforms for you.

Even young people who aren’t particularly academic, could get through a GCSE in English and maths with the appropriate tutoring

My daughter did have tutoring. Both at school in year 10 and 11 and then at college, she had an EHCP and a weekly tutor was part of it.

She took that maths GCSE about 6 times, and got stuck on 3 each time, each time she got a higher grade, but the grade boundaries kept increasing so she got a 3 again.

She’s very dyslexic (and autistic), and the maths GCSEs was a perfect storm of all the things she has issues with - working memory, processing speed, language-heavy questions and coping under pressure in timed exams. All the tutoring and retakes in the world is never going to help

On the other hand, she did a Level 3 extended diploma and finished with distinction/distinction/merit because the format suited her style of learning and she could demonstrate her ability through continuous assessment rather than one off exams

Even young people who aren’t particularly academic, could get through a GCSE in English and maths with the appropriate tutoring.

This absolutely isn’t the case for all. I have one DS who will never get GCSE English despite having bespoke provision via an EOTAS package. FS doesn’t work for him either.

I don't think this is the case either.
If you are academic yourself with average or above children, you may think it true, but as a parent of 2 who struggled I can see how a sizable minority may repeatedly fail to pass.

All due respect there’s thousands of people in this country who have jobs and don’t speak a word of English.

There’s thousands of jobs in this country for unskilled people. Hence why the government gives visas to people overseas to come over and to them as they’re going unfilled.

Hospital porter, warehouse operative, cleaner/janitor, construction labourer, cleaner, farm hand, catering, carer etc etc.

I used to work in a college and I think you’re getting confused with ‘level 1’ vs ‘foundation courses’. If some students had zero GCSEs they’d have an entry year into say construction where they’d do a little bit of everything. I was literally the complete basics, having a go at sawing and learning why people wear a hard hat. The course was ran by special educational need tutors (as the course content was so basic) and had no formal curriculum/syllabus. It was usually for kids who had been in SEN schools or left mainstream. If they could follow basic written and verbal instructions they’d be able to progress onto level 1 the next year.

Level 1 entrance criteria was literally a couple of old fashioned grade Es in GCSE. One question I remember from the multiple choice (level 1) mechanics exam was what light bulb is essential for the safety of the car: headlight, glove box, internal boot light or vanity mirror light… I had to explain to a student what a bulb was… he probably did pass level 1 but would have been strongly advised to do another level 1 in a different trade instead of moving upwards.

A lot of tutors called in babysitting. 70% of student would have been better just doing work experience placements as in putting trolleys back in their bays in supermarkets.

You'd be surprised how many people lack even basic common sense/any initiative.

I don't doubt you think it does.

Jesus....if that is the case complain to the school. And this is coming from a teacher with years of experience in state schools in inner London.

There is no “think” about it.

but you havn’t said which part you don’t believe. So o conclude you are simply trolling.

Oh do fuck off

DD is intelligent, hard working and talented in a vocational area.

She got a distinction in GCSE English oral, but failed the written exam. She can do arithmetic and manage money, but geometry and algebra are a foreign language to her.

She can do coursework and excels at performing arts, but can't package everything up to tick the boxes in a one hour written exam. On track for distinctions in her BTech, but has worked her socks off and still failed GCSEs.

Has a great work ethic, social skills, teamwork etc a great employee and assistant teacher at her performing arts school - has endless patience with the little ones. She is on track to earn a living and contribute to society, but no thanks to the educational system. Thanks to her determination and my support.

In the case of DD, working incredibly hard. School providing small group teaching, and yhen one to.one tutoring.

So fuck right off the other side of fuckville

There are loads of alternatives

Yes, they have to resit English and maths. Yes, they can’t move on to a level 3 programme (Alevel equivalent) without them. But they could do lots of different vocational courses all of which would lead to jobs. Or an apprenticeship at level 2.

But the government require you to study English and maths if you don’t have it until 18 and you can’t move up a level unless you can evidence those skills. That’s right. You have to have the English skills to write at level 3.

Perhaps your friend should look for a different college for her child if they aren’t able to pass their GCSEs where they are?

Yiu haven't read my post properly

There are plenty of level 3 vocational courses than do not need the literacy or numeracy skills of GCSE English and Maths. A certain level of literacy and numeracy skill, yes, but not GCSE level.

But young people are being excluded from succeeding at vocational courses because there is an artificial hurdle of academic achievement - artificial because it says nothing about their ability in their vocational area.

Controversial opinion, a grade 4 in Maths and English is achievable for the vast majority of people, with the exception of those with learning disabilities.

If you can't get these then it is common sense to restrict progression onto a higher course after level two.
We need our tradespeople to have a good understanding of maths, for obvious reasons.

I say this as someone who really struggled to get a maths pass.

Wrong.

DD doesn't have learning disabilities. She doesn't show her abilities in written exams, no matter how hard she works and how good the teaching.

She is talented and a high achiever in her vocational area.