AIBU to question repeated GCSE resits instead of alternative college pathways?

[Windyday3]

I have two friends with an 18 year old young person each
Both these DC went to the local school and failed maths and English GCSE
So from there they both went to the local college,did a foundation course and resat both GCSEs
Unfortunately neither passed Maths and English
So neither were allowed to move to the next level of their course.
Both had to start a second foundation course in a subject they didn't want to do and were doing resits in maths and English.
They have both just resat the exams recently
But if they fail again,in September they will both start a third foundation course in another subject they don't want to do ,while they resit maths and English.
This time next year they will both be 19 and will have to leave college.
They both have one more shot at passing and will end up in a years time leaving college with three Foundation courses and . hopefully maths and English GCSE if they pass.
But how does that equip them to get a job??
They will of had three years at college and come out with three Foundation courses,two in subjects they are not interested in .
Neither have an EHCP ,but both have ADHD .
Why is there not a different path for children that can't get maths and English GCSE ???
Why have they been made to waste 3 years doing courses that are not going to equip them for a job , because it's so important they get these maths and English qualifications.
I do get they are important
I'm just questioning why there is not different paths , because education should not be a one size fits all
They will of had 3 years at college when they leave at age 19
That 3 years could of been spent getting them a qualification that would of actually helped them get a job.
Who's benefiting from them both being made to do 3 Foundation courses in 3 different subjects..the children certainly aren't ,as it qualifies them for nothing

The requirement to have maths and/or English was removed from most apprenticeships, so that could be a route into a career. Infantry roles in the Army don't have a qualification requirement either. Colleges can only follow the frameworks set out by the awarding bodies. What are the parents of these young people doing to help them explore alternative options?

Yes, I agree.

My daughter is massively dyslexic (and also autistic) and I downloaded some past functional skills papers for her and she found them much easier - not easier maths wise, but the questions tested her actual maths ability rather than her working memory, reading speed, processing speeds and trying to understand complicated questions under a huge time pressure.

We found the English L2 FS much more straightforward than the GCSE.
Particularly because

• you could do the 3 parts separately (so tuition could focus just on that bit),
• the exams were shorter,
• the reading texts more straightforward (no 1900s language)
• the writing was more transactional with bullets of things to cover

Because DD did this independently in the academic year she turned 19 she didn't qualify for funding (too young) so we had to pay.

The FS maths we looked at but weren't convinced as it seemed more wordy than the GCSE and missed out bits DD liked such as algebra. In the end she passed the resit GCSE so we didn't need to look further.

I’ve worked in FE and it the college in this instance. At my college group they entered them for each time and moved them up the levels in the hope they improved a grade or half grade each retake time and leave with 4’s. I’d be finding a different college

How hard are they trying? Its quite unusual to spend years slogging away at math and English gcse and not be able to scrape a 4. What sort of not-foundation course are they wanting to study that requires them?

To stay on at college at the age of 19, it is no longer free, tuition has to be paid for. Many colleges offer discounts or waiver fees, based on the income and circumstances. For almost every job these days maths and English is required. Some may take people without them for example, hospitality and catering, construction and trades, painter, decorator, care sector,hairdressing, beauty, retail, driving & logistics. Rather than stay on at college, which isn't the right place for them, perhaps look into apprenticeships. There are many to choose from, receiving a small wage while they learn and gaining skills. This country is lacking in trades , carpenter, plumber, etc. I think this would be the best way forward for these two young men

I didn’t say it was just because someone is not academic. The YP being discussed in the OP have SEN and require SEP to be made for them that they won’t otherwise receive.

An EHCP can also open up other avenues since the OP is focusing on work. For example, supported internships. Then having an EHCP can enable the YP to remain in education or training for longer, something the OP is worried about, because it is acknowledged YP with EHCPs may need longer in education or training.

It is an incredibly poor EHCP that doesn’t provide any SEP that wouldn’t otherwise be available, especially considering PfA provision.

You can do level 1 with nothing and then you move on to level 2, then level 3 whilst retaking, so it sounds like neither were capable of the courses they were going.

Will "have had" three years...
I can't think of many employers these days whose baseline criteria for employment wouldn't include a candidate being functionally numerate and demonstrably able to understand written English and clearly express themselves in writing using passable spelling and grammar.

That's literally impossible.

The government said they were changing this. Not sure if that's happening yet-maybe ask the college?

Having taught some GCSE maths class Iagree with you. A student with a 1 in GCSE is not going ro get a 4a couple of months later.

Some classes the students just wanted to take the pass. Some wanted to pass, I literally did a happy dance when one student said, "I understood that, I never understood it at school".

I believe there should be an arithmetic GCSE, that would cover the things most people use andd is used by people doing plumbing and other trades.

But you can have basic literacy and numeracy without GCSE.

Trigonometry, algebra geometry etc isn't basic and if you for instance get a shop job or labourer or carer then hardly required. Nor is it required for thousands of other jobs

I also wonder what happens to teenagers who don't have GCSE but have qualifications for a similar level from other countries. Do the colleges accept them?

Some?? That's a hell of a lot of jobs you've quoted there. So hardly " for almost every job " you need them

It’s so frustrating, as is not being able to do stand alone math & English or functional skills before the age of 19.
My DS had a full time job and wanted to do resits alongside it but couldn’t as they don’t get funding for un19s unless they are also doing another course.

Please tell me which it of my post you believe to be “literally impossible” as my first hand experience tells me otherwise.

The conditions of funding have an exemption for those with oversees qualifications equivalent to GCSE grade 4+. Although individual colleges can set their own entry criteria and some may still require them to study English and Maths.

Surely if you have a year to study purely gcse maths and English and you can't pass at that stage how are you going to be able to undertake a college course? The demands would surely be higher? Are there learning difficulties at play?

But if you had an entire year of concentrating only on those 2 subjects? Applying even a little effort and with some parental support surely most 17 year olds could pass those?

Failing gcses is no reason to send someone to be wqr fodder

MY DC are both SEN (autistic with various other diagnoses that make things even harder). DS was in special school, DD fell down the gap between mainstream and special school - couldn't manage in mainstream but didn't qualify for special school.

When they were 10 years old, we switched to home education. I often see it spoken of in disparaging terms on here, and it's certainly viewed that way by the wider population too. I was a school governor and I have a very positive view of school. It works for many children - but not for all. We need to get better at supporting families who aren't following the traditional route for education.

DS would never have been able to take any exams, but we are working towards him developing life skills. DD is slowly working towards her Functional Skills.

In our local home ed community, we have lots of SEN teens but not exclusively so. Some have opted to take iGCSEs in English, Maths, and other subjects (often one or more of the sciences), others are doing Functional Skills. One has recently been accepted onto an art course at the local college without having any formal qualifications but will be doing a foundation course in English/Maths while she is there. One is starting agricultural college (no qualifications) and another has been accepted onto an apprenticeship.

I'm not suggesting that home education is the right pathway for everyone, but within our community it's much more common for parents and teens to consider options other than the standard GCSEs/college/university route. There ARE options out there, but they're not very well-publicised as there seems to be an obsession with pushing all our teens down the same pathway, regardless of whether it works for them or not.

I do think people who found school easy and had children who found school easy don’t understand that passing maths and English for some kids isn’t just a case of ‘trying harder.’ My eldest has struggled with academics all his life. He couldn’t read a word until he was 6 and reading never ‘clicked’ with him like it does with lots of children - it has always been a real slog with very slow progress throughout his entire school career. He had weekly tuition for maths and English in Year 11 but still got a 2 in English language and a 3 in maths. He resat them at college after lessons all year and again got a 2 in English and a 3 in maths. He’s resitting them again this year and is predicted a 2 in English but a 4 in maths. I’ll believe the maths when I see it but I do hope he manages it. He’s always attended school, never enjoyed it but never got in much trouble apart from being occasionally late. He has spent years in a system he hates and just does not understand but some people probably do just think he’s not trying very hard.

These policies are blocking pathways for the exact people who need them. I know 2 young people, one of which was absolutely passionate about the area he wanted to work in, both blocked from progressing with vocational courses because they couldn’t pass maths. The very fact they are pursuing vocational courses in the first place makes it more likely that the purely academic path wasn’t for them, it’s outrageous how much opportunity is being lost.

They have had to do a foundation,full time course as well as the maths and English
They aren't allowed to just do maths and English resit on their own
They are being forced to take foundation courses in subjects they don't want to do .

Ok this i absolutely understand, kids with additional needs there should be some sort of functional option and courses with more life skill focus. I guess kids like yours who fall between additional needs schooling and mainstream will be very disadvantage. My eldest is 8 and was 7 before he finally understood cdc words and eventually started to read, he's now on track in literacy which is mad, such a jump. However will he cope with exams when they come round? I really don't know. Time will tell. It's a worry.