Elderly gentleman refused my help getting off the train

[givemeareasonto]

I’m getting the train to visit a friend today. On my first train there was an elderly man who had a suitcase and another bag with him, as well as a walking stick. He had assistance to get on the train.

I was getting off at the same stop as him and he was looking around a bit aimlessly, obviously looking for help. I asked if he needed a hand to get his things off the train and he scoffed and said “he wouldn’t take help from a woman”.

I left him to it, but to be honest it’s left a really sour taste in my mouth. AIBU to think this was a really dick-ish thing to say? I wanted to snap back at him and say if he didn’t want help from a woman, he shouldn’t be travelling with more than he can cope with, but I didn’t.

I am not so sure about these claims about older men being from a generation who had expectations of chivalry etc. I have witnessed plenty of older men being downright rude and obnoxious and it is often directed at women. Recently I was on a busy bus and an older man got on and started berating other (mostly female) passengers for not immediately getting up & offering him a seat. 'You lazy cows' was the phrase he used.

I have frequently offered seats to people who obviously need it more incl older people. This man didn't look in need hence nobody offered their seat; he seemed quite sprightly, not obviously infirm and, judging by the way he was loudly insulting us, had plenty of energy. But it seems that women need to be aware that otoh they can also hurt an older man's pride by offering him help; I suppose (not for the first time) women can't win.

People are strange!

Lots of old people in particular have a weird sense of pride about needing help.

I think it’s been well articulated on this thread why being so weak a woman is now more physically capable than him, landed badly with this man. I remember my own Dad being upset the first time a woman stood up to offer him a seat on the bus.

The man did phrase it rudely, of course he did.

He may also be a horrible man and a sexist man.

He may also be hating ageing.

Whatever his reasons starting a thread to determindly hate on this man does not seem to me to evidence of a better personality than this man has. It’s still one of anger and superiority.

100% this.

He's a dickhead.

Unfortunately there are many dickheads in the world.

You didn't do anything wrong but you can't get through your life getting too uoset every time you encounter a dickhead, it's a huge waste of your emotional energy.

I was at the gym yesterday and an elderly chap was struggling with adjusting the seat position of one of the machines. It's got a bit of a trick to it. A different elderly chap offered to help amd they both continued to struggle for a while. I consciously didn't stick my oar in precisely because (as well as being busy trying to get my reps in on the machine I was using) I've previously been in situations where dickheads consider it to be an insult to their manliness to be offered help by a woman. So that was probably a bit dickish of me, judging them just for being old and assuming they were sexist, which they may not have been, so out of you and me, you made the better choice and should be proud of yourself. (The chaps did get it sorted in the end)

Read the book “Let them”. It will change your life perception of other peoples’ behaviour and how it affects you in great ways!

A near 60 year old woman isn't as capable of helping someone down the stairs, as a younger male retail assistant. I say that as a near 60 year old woman, who still lifts weights and is very active. My middle 30's DD was nervous of starting the gym, within weeks she was lifting more than us over 55 regulars. My middle DD does weights/martial arts, she doesn't fight men, as professional female boxers don't. If we fall, our bodies come off worse than men. We die easier. There are roles and places for female fire fighters/police etc, but we need male back up. It's simple biology. I'd take it as a loss of filter, my Mum had it, in the year before she died. I've seen people who have progressive cancer, lose their filter, then there's simple aging neurological stuff. It's less stressful to ignore incidents like this.

I would have gratefully accepted the help too. I think that in our efforts to be ‘the most feminist’, women often feel we have to out-men the men. It is an absolute fact that men are physically stronger than women (hence why I want them to stay out of women’s sports) and that lifting a heavy suitcase is less of a big deal to them, even if we can manage ok. My brother helped me pack stuff into my car the other day and I carried a couple of items at a time, whereas he was able to manage a massive pile of stuff without even noticing. He wouldn’t even know what the inside of a gym looked like!

This.

I used to care for a man who point-blank refused to let me help. I'd feel awful walking along behind him in my carer's uniform, empty-handed, while he hauled a week's worth of groceries to the taxi rank.

Carers would go in to help him, and he'd insist they sit down while he made them a cup of tea and brought them biscuits.

When his dementia worsened, before we found somewhere suitable for him to live, we often found him at a local shop looking for his wife, worried she was going to try to pay for their groceries herself because she'd left his wallet at home, or trying to buy sweets and biscuits for his "daughters", aka the carers.

It may have been sexist in that he believed women needed a man to protect and provide for them, but it came from a place of love.

I don't know. In that case I guess I thought it was partly the staff's responsibility to help as their lifts were broken, and the guy was younger. I think if he hadn't have been there I would have accepted. I have accepted help from women before.

I kind of thought it's a burden to place on someone and I was being polite by declining. But I will not do something like that again if it could case offence.

Of course I know we are just as capable as men. In fact I believe in many ways much much more so. 😄

Sounds like my neighbours.

If they need something from us, they'll wait for DH even if I'm perfectly capable. Unless it's food related in which case that's obviously my job.

I was refilling the screen wash in my car once and my neighbour was amazed I knew how to lift the bonnet and came to check I knew where it went. If I didn't know where it went I'd already poured 5L in the wrong place but that didn't stop him needing to tell me where it went...

The other side keeps telling me how lucky I am that DH works hard enough for me to stay home. I WFH, and if I was full time I'd earn more 🤣

I agree with people who have said if he was very elderly possibly late 80s or more I would have treated this as a generational attitude. There were days when it was expected of men to remove their hat when a woman walked into a room or to stand up when a woman left the tabble etc. In his eyes accepting help from a woman would be insulting to her & lacking in chivalry especially in front of people.Nowadays women are so quick to shout misogynist for the least questionable gesture which could be open to interpretation.

He doesn’t want to face the fact that women now see him as some old codger who needs help stepping off a train rather than someone to respect and/or desire. It’s one thing to ask for help but another for someone to jump in and offer because they think you desperately need it. In his head he’s still the young man he always was. His snappiness was his insecurity not yours to carry.

not sure why you are giving this any headspace OP?

when you are old yourself, you can call it weird.

My attitude would be "fine, struggle on your own then. Makes no difference to me."

I agree, of course not old people im not generalising just going by experience that some older people would rather Poke their eyes out than accept help!

You sound as bad as each other tbh

For many men it’s embarrassing to need any help ( eg asking for directions!) but help from a woman would be shameful.
They see us as inferior and childlike.
My elderly neighbour ( 80s) recently saw me up a ladder in my garden and tried to insist I let him do it! I am a fit and healthy 45 year old. Madness.

we often found him at a local shop looking for his wife, worried she was going to try to pay for their groceries herself because she'd left his wallet at home
What a lovely man! This really touched me.

Doubtless just raised to think it's terribly bad manners to stand by while a woman's doing any sort of lifting. My granddad in his nineties wouldn't just stay put while I moved a piece of furniture or something. Poor old man's embarrassed. No logical reason to be, but he is. Men can be victims of their sexist socialisation too.

Nonsense. I am delighted when a man opens a door for me or pulls my chair out or helps me negotiate stairs with a pram etc. I don't expect it but if it happens I wouldn't dream of describing him as sexist. My response would be that's very kind, thank you.

This.

It’s not like needing help when you are young and have never been able to do the thing you need help with ( such as lifting something heavy).

It’s a reminder of your incapability, that is ever increasing. A reminder of your increasing vulnerability. It’s shit! A step closer to death!

I try to keep fit ( just about to go to the gym). But it not like it was when I was training to improve. The best I can hope for now is slowing decline.

My help has been refused several times when I’ve offered to help with a pushchair on steps. I’ve given it head space for all of five seconds. You should try it, OP.

I have some problems with my knee at the moment (MCL caused by exercising) and sat on a priority seat on a tram last week. An old guy with a shopping trolley got on, stood by my side and shouted "She's sat there and there's nothing wrong with her". I challenged hm and he refused to engage, but I told the conductor who dealt with him.

To be honest, he managed fine. He just wanted space for his shopping trolley. Being old doesn't entitle you to be an arse.