Aibu to think that clean eating isn’t that bad?

[arethereanyleftatall]

DD, 17, only eats ‘clean’. She eats like this because she says she feels much better on it, and for her that’s a priority above all else. And, to be fair to her, she’s thriving. Doing well at alevels, volunteering, working, and generally a wonderfully bright and joyous person to be around. This is in stark contrast to the gcse years with school refusal, period pains, excessive sleeping, no homework completed ever.
if it’s relevant, and so as not to drip feed, she ticks every adhd box at the top, but not diagnosed although we’re 4 years in now on the nhs list, and she’s got through the first few stages, and probably autism, but is able to mask so much, that that isn’t noticeable to the outside world.
daily menu for her would be steak, eggs, salmon, about 4 different fruits/veg, honey, all organic, and meat/fish/eggs only cooked in a special non Teflon pan with tallow. Drinks are filtered water only, and a hot drink with ginger, lemon.
I didn’t think this was too bad, expensive yes but I can afford it, but many of her peers are eating junk on the daily, and drinking alcohol, so compared to that, I feel like she’s ok. Yes, I know there’s lots in between that and balance would be key but I can’t force any near adult to eat, and certainly not DD for whom telling her what to do has the exact opposite effect.
anyway. On here last night, i discovered there’s a diagnosis for this - orthorexia, and it scared me. Oh, one last thing, it doesn’t stop her eating out socially, she’ll order steak and chips and I’ll eat her chips.

The issue isn’t her diet necessarily. The issue is the restrictions she’s placing on herself. The OP says that if her preferred foods aren’t available to her, she won’t eat until they are. That’s unhealthy.

This is dis-ordered eating. I’m sorry OP but I would try and find some therapy for her.
Clean eating is great. Most of us could eat better. But she is hugely controlling her diet and she spends whole days sometimes not eating because she can’t have exactly what she wants.

Generally, 80% healthy clean eating & 20% flexible eating (eg chips when they come with steak at a restaurant, a different milk than she usually chooses, junk on occasion, tap water when she has to, whatever the airport has that’s the best option) would be a much better position for long term mental health. There is no psychological flexibility in her behaviour. This is the issue.

I can’t diagnose eating issues it’s not my specialty but I am a psychologist

It's really not unusual for 17YOs to want to control diet and this is all healthy stuff. You say she's getting less extreme, which is good.

IMO the worst thing to do is make an issue of this so I would tend to ignore - take the 'that's nice dear' approach. Talking to her about her dier might result in pathalogical demand avoidance (it would with me) eg you say she should consider eating potatoes and she decides she will never eat a potato.

If you leave her space to back down she likely will. Keep an eye on her but really it sounds like she's found her groove.

FWIW (from some random on the internet) I'm actually really impressed that you've acknowledged that- mistakes do happen- takes balls to own them

This. I'd possibly be more or less concerned depending on what her "safe" fruit and veg are.

Not eating at all if her food isn't available is very disordered eating however.

But it’s not surprising that some of the foods are the same because the foods listed are really normal foods

I would be very wary. My adhd/ asc went from veganism, clean eating to serious Anorexia. Anorexia and ASC are often linked.

Agree - I have a friend doing some elimination diet thing and it's been going on forever and frankly, it's boring to hear about now and impacts on all social plans.

She's forever "so close to being done" 🙄

Hardly anyone actually really needs that level of control over their food and can't tolerate that amount of stuff. It would drive me bonkers being married to her cos the rest of the family just eat normally (which was probably already a healthier diet than the vast majority of people have!)

I eat anti inflammatory foods for health reasons - sounds similar to her approach. I worked with a nutritional therapist- she was very helpful around mindset. Two points that may be helpful for your daughter from what she said to me 1. 80/20 rule or even 90/10 compliance (%of food) is better than stress of 100% compliance, which in itself can become inflammatory through stressing. 2. Eat mindfully - so if it’s a social occasion, or you get other benefits like travel, or a festival etc, you can let go of eating the best stuff. It’ll all even out in other days. so the flexibility /non rigidity comes when it’s “worth it” for yourself, based on other ways food makes you feel good (eg the times a loving relative has given you a lasagna, you may have many benefits from joining that meal, it’s ok to do so, and as long as following 80/20, your body is ok),
these approaches could empower her to be more flexible without feeling like she is putting her health to one side. The nutritional therapist also works with eating disorders, so these healthy mindsets around food are important at supporting healthy eating sustainably, not undermining it.

In fact, if you can afford it, you could offer to your daughter to pay for a session or two with a nutritional therapist to review what she eats & support her healthy eating goals around adhd /feeling better - they can help consider mindset and avoiding disordered eating

It's great that she's eating healthily and thriving. But the whole concept of "clean" eating suggests there is such a thing as "dirty" eating, which is kinda fucked up.

How patronising are you??

I wonder if the “I can’t afford to buy that” would have given her a broader outlook? Certainly can eat clean and cheaper, (oats, chicken, veg, fish) but filtered water, steak etc just sounds like a child developing the expensive tastes of an instagram influencer

there is nothing in our water that is bad. Yep, fluoride gets a bad press, but honestly filtered water isn’t any better. It’s just taste and you get used to that when you move areas and water taste different. Chilling it helps a lot. Keep a bottle of tap in fridge.

Try bringing in more different basic foods on basis of reducing costs. Protein especially as that’s what costs a lot. If she’s eating wide spectrum of fruit and veg then that’s all very good . A “no, we can’t afford to keep buying this for you” is sufficient, or a “ when you earn your own money and/or run your own household budget you can eat whatever you want”. She is only 17. she shouldn’t be controlling your purse strings at that age, even if you say you can afford it. What else could you do with that money for all the family, or even your own pension to ensure you are providing for your future?

She’s reducing her microplastic intake load by eliminating foods wrapped in plastic - similar to people switching their plastic chopping boards, Tupperwares etc. That’s not problematic

She could have gone about it in a different way, eg bringing her own food, but that’s an issue with organisation and not the food she’s eating.

Yes, reducing your microplastic intake is indeed sensible. Refusing to eat a single thing that has touched plastic is problematic.
Cant people see that it’s the extreme the OP’s daughter is taking things to that’s the issue? Yes, her diet is ok (although she could probably do with some carbs). Yes, it’s wise to reduce exposure to microplastics. What isn’t ’normal’ is to be so entirely wedded to these ideas that if she can’t eat her few preferred foods, she just won’t eat until she can have them again.
We also have to remember that these behaviours are being seen in someone who has a history of rigid, controlling behaviours and potential neurodivergence. This isn’t just someone who tries to be as healthy as she can.

Thank you so much all. I’ve just come back to this thread after work, I’m going to read it very thoroughly this weekend. Truly appreciated.

there are very mixed opinions, often complete opposites with some saying it’s very bad and some saying it’s not at all bad. This is comforting that it is not completely unanimous.

I meant to read this properly, and process it all, before speaking to her, but as she wanted to go to the shops just now I took my chance. Kept it lighthearted ish, but spoke of that I worry about where this would go in the future. And that I wish she’d eat a bigger range. Spoke of control. I have left it at quite a short conversation as this works best for her, just drip something in then let her process and research.

I asked the would she drink tap water if dehydrated question and she said yes, and in fact she had done at a friends house a few weeks ago.

i love the idea of getting her to speak to a nutritionist, I’ll research that, thank you. She does have a counsellor at school anyway, an hour a week, so I suggested she tell her and see what she says.

My main point was, it isn’t the food, it’s the lack of flexibility. And that if she isn’t flexible, that’s essentially what an eating disorder is, and that’s what we/she needs to make sure doesn’t happen.

so, I’ve opened the conversation, that will do for now. And in good news, when we went shopping, she added a different fruit to the basket she hasn’t had for ages in response to our chat.

Thank you so much x

As long as her 'clean eating' allows for a very wide range of healthy foods and doesn't get restrictive, I wouldn't worry too much. Autistic people are often far more restricted in their eating than NT, so the fact she opts for healthy foods not just junk is good. And low carb diets are said to help ADHD brains function more normally.

I'd encourage her to widen her range of fruit and veg especially. Discuss what different fresh foods do for you. Walnuts are very good for ADHD, so are all dark green veg - kale, broccoli, chard, spinach, pak and bok choi. Orange veg like carrots, squash and pumpkin and sweet potatoes are really good too, as are different coloured peppers. Help her widen this range. IME, autistic DC are way more likely to listen to someone online than their mum, so try to find an eat-the-rainbow veg chef influencer that appeals to her.

Hope you don't mind me commenting on this.

Non-stick coatings contain PFAS 'forever chemicals'. The worst chemical, PFOA, has already been banned in the UK. However, I know a number of (corporate) insurers have applied PFAS, not just PFOA, exclusions to standard policy wording, and the indication is the rest will be following suit. They are seen in the industry as potentially being the next major widespread health issue in terms of claims and payouts.

In relation to non-stick cookware, current information suggests the actual non-stick surfaces don't represent a known risk. Long-term use, high heat, and any degradation, damage, stippling, scratches, or flaking etc. were thought to pose a risk of ingesting the 'glue' (also PFAS), but I think that's been disproved, at least for reputablemanufacturers. Now it is more the environmental ecosystem concerns that seem to be the issue.

The risk involves health concerns related to the long-term accumulation of PFAS, not just one-time use or cookware alone.

I work in the insurance industry, although not as a reinsurer setting policy, and as you can probably tell, I am certainly no expert. Personally, I think the risk is minimal. PFAS are in so many items: cookware, makeup, cleaning products, oils, and on and on. I still use non-stick pans, replacing them immediately when there are any signs of degradation.

However, when reinsurers, with all their experts, refuse to insure, and not having the expert knowledge to assess studies, opting to remove that concern by using cast iron isn't totally off the wall, and I am not sure I would factor it into concerns re disordered eating.

As I say, no expert, and more than happy to be corrected on any of the above.

Incidentally my autistic son had restricted eating for years during childhood. He is now absolutely fine. But he was malnourished when he was very young. One doctor told us that as long as he ate from all key food groups, it didn't really matter if what he ate was very similar each day. For eight years he lived on wholemeal cheese or PBJ sandwiches, peeled sliced apples, carrot sticks, petit pois (not peas! ) and tinned spaghetti with grated cheese. He drank milk.

The doctor pointed out that cheese, milk and peanut butter with wholemeal gave protein; bread and spaghetti gave carb energy, and peas, carrots and apples gave him fresh nutrients. It took the pressure off us and he ate more if we didn't try to vary it so often. Gradually he added to this. Now he eats almost everything.

People are over-dramatising this. I've had what most people would describe as orthorexia since my teens and now I'm 53. I've changed what I eat over the years depending on what is considered healthy at the time.

I do now have a lot of food intolerances but that's nothing to do with orthorexia....I suspect that's more to do with acid reflux and long term use of esomeprazole. I really hate how some people think that people with food intolerances are just making it up...so arrogant. I refer to a poster on page 1...I haven't RTFT.