AIBU to think women voting Reform are voting against themselves?

[Peaceandquietandacuppa]

AIBU to think that any woman voting for Reform is like a Turkey voting for Christmas?

the latest debacle - Rob Kenyon refusing to simply apologise for commenting on a disgusting post about Carol Vorderman’s areshole where he said “we’re all thinking the same thing”.

He was given the chance and chose instead to say “ I didn’t write the post” and “it was a long time ago”

Reform support him and say women are clutching their pearls at “mild tweets”. We all know from the many many threads on MN. That women face abuse every day and are most at danger from men they know. These men walk among us every day without us knowing. And if they feel so empowered to publically like a tweet saying they would love to lick a woman’s a*sehole or that women have abortions so they can “shag around” we all know that’s the tip of the iceberg in terms of their true thoughts. What about the Reform candidate who was convicted of kicking his partner while she lay on the ground outside a nightclub and Reform simply said “he’s done his time”

I attach a copy of what our dear friend Nigel wrote after the Sarah Everard case. Where was the energy he is giving for Henry Nowak? Oh wait because the perpetrator was a white man there was no opportunity to create tensions that suit his agenda.

IABU - women who vote Reform need to wake up, and fast

IANBU - I agree with Rob Kenyon and all the other things they have said against women (I’d love to hear why if you don’t mind)

So what do you think they should do? Because it's either carry on with Starmer, who you think worse than useless, let Burnham have a go at being better, (what's your evidence for deciding he'd be awful?) or call a GE, which would be a two horse race between Labour and Reform.
If you want the Tories in, you should be willing Labour not to go to the polls anytime soon. Because there's a lot of work for the Tories to do for them to sway voters back in their direction. The reason we have a Labour government is because the Conservatives lost the confidence of the electorate, and this is also the reason if Labour is ousted it will be for Reform.
I never thought I'd see the day when the Conservatives lost their place as one of the two main parties. Rather than focusing on Labour as the driver to Reform, Conservatives need to have a hard think about why Reform have replaced them as the opposition.

Definitely no General Election.
Start making the difficult decisions and let the strong ministers like Kendall, Mahmood etc shine and deliver it. And Rachel Reeves needs to grow a backbone. No more benefits. And Starmer needs to deliver on illegal criminal immigration and activity there. Again, Mahmood can do it.

Personally, I think in good times, there is scope for luxury beliefs and identity politics. But in times when the very fabric of society and safety is being threatened, stuff like that needs to be parked. You just have to put the majority first and everyone’s safety overall. It is pretty common sense. And if you do not, the whole house comes tumbling done in one confused mess.

No, I'm not having a laugh. Politicians popularity is measured based on their approval rating. Andy Burnham scores highest in the UK.
The fact that you may not have heard of him until recently isn't the point. Approval is measured amongst people who have heard of the politician. Burnham has been operating in a specific space and has won more approval in that space than any other politician in theirs. There is no reason to believe the qualities that have achieved this wouldn't be transferable.

^Well said. It's not at all clear what this poster is calling for. The only options right now are Labour or another Labour PM (almost certainly Burnham since Restore decided to field a candidate in Makerfield). There really isn't going to be a GE.

Well we might see soon. Starmer will let go finally.

I thought Starmer said he would fight in any leadership challenge.

I only heard about Restore recently. Is that actually splitting the Reform vote or is it a Machiavellian attempt to make Reform look more moderate and mainstream.

No, Rupert Lowe fell out with Farage big time. So there is no Machiavellian intentions involved here.

Yes, Starmer might intend to fight against any leadership challenge from Burnham, but I can’t see him succeeding. I think his supporters would abandon him, as happened to Thatcher, who also vowed to fight to the end but was forced to resign.

Listening this morning to the radio no one on the doorstep in Makerfield is saying anything positive about Starmer, the opposite in fact.

Some like Burnham others will vote Reform or Restore even, but there’s nothing for Starmer. Loads of Labour MPs will go up and hear this. They’d be mad to cling on to Starmer.

Polls strongly suggest Starmer would lose by some margin to Burnham if he fights.
The Restore thing is interesting. They are indeed splitting the Makerfield vote and helping Burnham significantly. They couldn't really do that in a GE though as they don't have enough candidates and are still in their infancy.
They do have some very wealthy backing, so that could change. But I'm not ready to think enough of my fellow citizens really want what they stand for to see them as significant at a wider level.
On the surface, they seem hell bent on hurting Reform, even to the point of facilitating the Burnham win, which could greatly advantage Labour. Which is an odd approach for a right wing party.
I do think there's a push to frame them as the attack dog of the right, and if you don't want to face them, then you'd better support Reform as we're all that stands between you. So perhaps there's a long game.

@5128gap - but they might be trying to get Reform in ultimately at the next GE. Because Burnham is not liked by the finanical markets. What if they are willing to crash the economy so Labour becomes so unpopular that it delivers the next GE to Reform on a plate?

Same with the Tories. They will be saying give Burnham a chance. Because they know it will deliver the Centrist voters back to the Tories on a plate too potentially. For all his lack of leadership, Starmer is pretty small c ideologically and hence why a lot of swing voters went for Labour in the last GE. They simply thought Labour was back to the Blair years and were so fed up of the Tories.

I suppose anythings possible. The idea that Reform actually want Burnham to win could certainly explain why they appear to have scraped their barrel of misogynist dimwits and come up with Kenyon to oppose him.

Hmm. They are more likely saying they want him to win as a double bluff, when it’s the last thing they want.

Yep he was in charge of the NHS when people were having to drink out of flower vases in that famous Blair era NHS scandal...was it Staffordshire?

No, he wasn't. This happened between 2005 and 2008. Burnham didn't become health minister until 2009. Perhaps you're getting confused by the fact that Burnham commissioned the enquiry into the scandal?

Apologies. I retract that then.

I have no idea. I am not a politician. I agree that it would be good for the Tories to have more time as I think Kemi Badenoch could do really well if she builds the right team for a GE.

This is a shitshow of Starmer’s making (with help from the old Tories) and right now, every time opens his mouth he recruits more support for Reform. Andy Burnham comes across as equally slippery, self serving and anti women and as pp points out the markets hate him so that would be worse.

Maybe we are stuck with Starmer for now as he puts the final nails in Labour’s coffin for the next generation. What a mess.

100degree chess move clearly

Except if Kenyon does win, aren’t we then in actual trouble and Reform will get in. If they field a below average candidate and that is enough.
Or will it be the wake up call the Labour Party needs to sort out this country and get its act together?

Surely that’s got to be a big enough wake up call to make Starmer start to listen and stop blaming the British public? I really hope so.

I definitely won't be voting for Reform as I think they will be as bad as Labour for the economy but I understand those who do feel frustrated enough to want to do so. I am however bewildered by any woman who voted Labour/Green/ LibDem/SNP or PC recently as their attitudes towards women are far worse. Briget Phillipson is the worst Women and equalities minister we have had for a very long time.