AIBU to think women voting Reform are voting against themselves?

[Peaceandquietandacuppa]

AIBU to think that any woman voting for Reform is like a Turkey voting for Christmas?

the latest debacle - Rob Kenyon refusing to simply apologise for commenting on a disgusting post about Carol Vorderman’s areshole where he said “we’re all thinking the same thing”.

He was given the chance and chose instead to say “ I didn’t write the post” and “it was a long time ago”

Reform support him and say women are clutching their pearls at “mild tweets”. We all know from the many many threads on MN. That women face abuse every day and are most at danger from men they know. These men walk among us every day without us knowing. And if they feel so empowered to publically like a tweet saying they would love to lick a woman’s a*sehole or that women have abortions so they can “shag around” we all know that’s the tip of the iceberg in terms of their true thoughts. What about the Reform candidate who was convicted of kicking his partner while she lay on the ground outside a nightclub and Reform simply said “he’s done his time”

I attach a copy of what our dear friend Nigel wrote after the Sarah Everard case. Where was the energy he is giving for Henry Nowak? Oh wait because the perpetrator was a white man there was no opportunity to create tensions that suit his agenda.

IABU - women who vote Reform need to wake up, and fast

IANBU - I agree with Rob Kenyon and all the other things they have said against women (I’d love to hear why if you don’t mind)

People here illegally, either overstaying their visas or they snuck in undetected can access free NHS primary care - GP, A&E and walk-in health centres etc. regardless of immigration status. Likewise those with failed asylum applications.

I’d prefer Kemi in power but I can see why Labour are driving more to Reform.

80% of Reform supporters are former Conservatives, so the Tories have obviously been doing a lot of driving too.

It’s more a reaction to Labour as they’re in power, it shifts people to the right as a response to what annoys them.

But there is also loss from typical Labour such as unions which have seen a 20 point loss and GMB talking about this today.

Isn’t the Tory candidate in Makerfield set to lose his deposit? They got 34% of the vote there in 2019.

Ok so...

People are driven to Reform who then get in. They scrap the Equalities Act as they promised to do.
Then the Greens/a very progressive party get in next and they can, if they choose, make everything self-id and there is no recourse because Reform removed the fences.

We live in a democracy, it isn't just about the party who gets elected at the next election but the party after that and the party after that. It's also why I don't like Labour weakening freedom of speech. Even if I trusted their judgement compl once you set that precedent it allows the next lot to get in to do the same thing. And then you get into a bit of a doom loop.

So even from a TERFy perspective Reform are bad news. I dont understand people being driven to reform because of their stance on gender TBH.

Its not a reaction to Labour. The stat is from the 2024 GE. 80% of Reform voters had been driven from the Conservatives to Reform before Labour was in government.
We know Labour have lost voters to Reform. An estimated 15% who voted for them in 2024 would now vote Reform, and that's obviously a concern.
However to say Labour are driving people to Reform while ignoring that the vast majority of Reforms vote came from people disillusioned with the Conservatives isn't a balanced assessment of the situation.

Maybe but it’s not just about gender and as I put I’m not actually voting for them.

More that the more Labour irritate people the more voters shift right. Some do leave for the Greens too who are also a risk on that issue.

Interestingly, Labour won 73.6% of the vote in Makerfield in 1997 and 60.1% in 2017.

The last 5 times a Labour government has irrited people they shifted to the right and voted Conservative. Labour can't be blamed for the fact that now when people are looking right, they are so unenamoured by the Tories they see Reform as the better bet. That one's on them.

“The UK government’s non-statutory definition of anti-Muslim hostility is the following:
Anti-Muslim hostility is intentionally engaging in, assisting or encouraging criminal acts – including acts of violence, vandalism, harassment, or intimidation, whether physical, verbal, written or electronically communicated – that are directed at Muslims because of their religion or at those who are perceived to be Muslim, including where that perception is based on assumptions about ethnicity, race or appearance.
It is also the prejudicial stereotyping of Muslims, or people perceived to be Muslim including because of their ethnic or racial backgrounds or their appearance, and treating them as a collective group defined by fixed and negative characteristics, with the intention of encouraging hatred against them, irrespective of their actual opinions, beliefs or actions as individuals.
It is engaging in unlawful discrimination where the relevant conduct – including the creation or use of practices and biases within institutions – is intended to disadvantage Muslims in public and economic life.”

“The government encourages the adoption of the definition across the public, private and third sectors, and them to consider how this definition applies in their contexts.
Reporting helplines and services should also consider how the definition can inform their processes, ensuring that incidents of anti-Muslim hostility are accurately identified, recorded, and addressed.
As part of our next steps, we will work with sectors to consider practical guidance and the best approaches to provide sector-specific guidance and support effective implementation.
While the definition is non-statutory, it should serve as a valuable guidance tool, enabling the government and other relevant bodies to better understand and respond to anti-Muslim hostility, supporting further action on tackling religiously motivated hate.”

@TemperanceWest - it is a non exhaustive definition to be applied in context, but all three sectors have to consider it and I think any judge would visit this definition within the context of the Equality Act.

It clearly is aimed at some Reform/Restore voters (note “some”) and the “electronically communicated” seems deliberate.

It’s not that hard to see why Reform are doing well. It’s unprecedented but a Labour gov with the policies they have will anger people.

Conservatives aren’t really the place to give Labour a kicking.

What policies do you feel Labour have that are angering people so much that they are choosing Reform? Policies, as oppose to not resolving problems as quickly as people want?
(Genuinely intersected in your view on this, I'm not just asking to argue with you!)

Why would that surprise anyone? 1997 was a landslide and 2017 was the first GE after the Brexit referendum. Makerfield voted overwhelmingly Leave.

I was wondering how well Andy Burnham would do compared to those results actually.

Polls are available. We’ll see in ten days’ time. Simons’ vote share was 45% in 2024.

In fact, Labour's vote share went up 8% in 2017.

I’m not sure what your point is. I’m not convinced you are either.

Wondering whether Burnham's popularity will match the best of Blair and Corbyn.

This thread is equally bat shit and depressing. People are either happy to be ill-informed or if they are just ignore everything and be 'well they are all shit and cannot be trusted, let's vote for the self-intrested, power hungry nutters with no actual viable policy as a protest'.

As posted pages ago, I am a social policy and politics nerd. You can really track the trajectory of governments, populist voting and social policy since Margaret Thatcher in this country.

Margaret Thatcher's legacy is that she totally changed the way people saw society. Like it or not, she changed thinking form 'us' to 'me' and there is no coming back from that.

Tony Blair destroyed his government's legacy by pandering to the USA. And his government did a lot of good things for this country, particularly those at the bottom of the ladder.

David Cameron implemented austerity which most studies show, has had a long lasting and incredibly detrimental impact on the economy. And that is before the pig headed egotist decided to action the referendum which led to Brexit. Following that, it has been basically been a shit show. I remember reading an article in the New York Times which summed up Brexit negotiations as watching someone who had decided to commit suicide but had not yet decided how.

People finally got fed up of the Tory shit show and voted labour (as is traditional when people have had enough of the right wing Oxbridge types not actually doing anything for the average voter. Their multi-millionaire mates have done very well though).

So Labour are in and it is not like 1997. They have inherited a country with public services at breaking point, huge national debt (the Tories spent big during covid- arguably far bigger providers of welfare than ever seen before). Public sector workers were demanding and needing a pay rise (I am one, my pay was down 30% over 14 years whilst the demands of my job have become unworkable). The majority of public sector workers actually earn very little. People bang on about a better pension and rights, which is the trade off - most people could find a role in the public sector to meet their skill set if they wanted in.

Raising taxes is a no go in this country, and businesses and landlords have been propped up for so many years, any attempt to change that is met with cries of how businesses are being destroyed etc. If it is not viable paying a decent wage and costs, then it is not viable.

I am naturally left leaning, but I agree this government has been disappointing in many ways. However, what really pisses me off is that our right wing press have been gunning for them from day one and holding them to totally different standards than the previous lot. I also think that as a society, we have just become used to instant gratification. People expected instant change when that is just not possible with what they inherited and within the current global climate.

We live in a democracy and I accept that I have had to live through years of Tory shite and also Brexit. Apparently that make me a 'woke, lefty' which seems to be a bad thing.

I would just like reform voters to explain how them being in power will actually my and my Dc's life day-to- day and also the community I live in. Immigration does not actually impact me or the services in my city (apart from all those amazing ICU nurses who looked after my brother for 6 months, and those who staff my mother's wonderful nursing home- end stage dementia).

Dameputtingonabraveface
David Cameron implemented austerity which most studies show, has had a long lasting and incredibly detrimental impact on the economy

You forgot to mention that David Cameron implemented austerity with the encouragement of the European Commission.

It is conceivable that Labour will be implementing “savings” under direction of the IMF too and quite soon.

The trends don’t indicate that.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-growth

@Clavinova, maybe you would like to inform us all of how Tory policies of privitisation of the public sector via the back door has benefited the every day tax payers? Just a small example as a CP social worker, but placements for our vulnerable children are now easily costing the tax payer between £5000-£10 000 a month, with placements for the most hard to place costing even more than this with education and therapy paid on top.

Because they have been privitised. None of the workers staffing these placements are on big money, most will be on minimum wage. This is tax-payers money and councils have a statutory duty to find and therefore pay for these places. As a consequence, most do not have the money to bring these services back in house. Private care for our most vulnerable children is a huge money maker for private investors. It shocks me that anyone can be okay with this.

Nobody has to justify their voting choices. Someone will always be worse off by someone else’s choice.

People vote for self interest