AIBU to think women voting Reform are voting against themselves?

[Peaceandquietandacuppa]

AIBU to think that any woman voting for Reform is like a Turkey voting for Christmas?

the latest debacle - Rob Kenyon refusing to simply apologise for commenting on a disgusting post about Carol Vorderman’s areshole where he said “we’re all thinking the same thing”.

He was given the chance and chose instead to say “ I didn’t write the post” and “it was a long time ago”

Reform support him and say women are clutching their pearls at “mild tweets”. We all know from the many many threads on MN. That women face abuse every day and are most at danger from men they know. These men walk among us every day without us knowing. And if they feel so empowered to publically like a tweet saying they would love to lick a woman’s a*sehole or that women have abortions so they can “shag around” we all know that’s the tip of the iceberg in terms of their true thoughts. What about the Reform candidate who was convicted of kicking his partner while she lay on the ground outside a nightclub and Reform simply said “he’s done his time”

I attach a copy of what our dear friend Nigel wrote after the Sarah Everard case. Where was the energy he is giving for Henry Nowak? Oh wait because the perpetrator was a white man there was no opportunity to create tensions that suit his agenda.

IABU - women who vote Reform need to wake up, and fast

IANBU - I agree with Rob Kenyon and all the other things they have said against women (I’d love to hear why if you don’t mind)

If all parties lie and never do what they promise, what makes you think Reform will solve the problems? What exactly is their plan to stop immigration? How do you know it will work, and how much will it cost?
Because alongside their promise on this issue, they're proposing a lot of other things that are quite scary if you're a woman, not very well off, need the NHS, might at some point need benefits. So unless you are a rich white man with private health care, you'd surely want to be pretty confident they'll deliver on immigration to sacrifice all those things.
What's the plan that's convinced you?

You know this could be sorted out by the main parties growing collective bollocks and addressing the issues that are moving people to vote Reform. You will still have the racists as that is unavoidable unfortunately but it’s possible that the ones who are feeling disenfranchised etc might actually be more inclined to listen.

So they don't get housed, allowances & use our NHS Healthcare systems, schools etc? Why do you think so many people are up in arms? It's because they DO get so much from the Government that UK citizens are paying hefty tax to cover.

We would still have NHS staff because of the LEGAL immigrants that come in to the country legally & pay taxes etc. More people would welcome others coming to the UK if they came the correct, legal way. Most people I know who don't agree with immigration are against those coming in illegally. It's nothing to do with their colour, race or beliefs, it's the fact a lot of them are coming in not checked or vetted & cost the UK a fortune to to keep them.
The NHS is also crippled by the added amount of system users, many being foreign nationals that haven't paid NI therefore draining the already low budgets allocated to Healthcare.

Asylum seekers recieve those things. Illegal immigrants don't.

If the NHS was being “crippled” it would be by the number of old people. There are now 13 million people over 65 in the UK, that’s 19% of the population. They account for 40% of hospital admissions and 60% of total hospital bed days. It’s not immigrants who are the issue, it’s an older and sicker population.

So what would you suggest happens to all those old malingerers?

Who said they were malingering? Factually they’re the biggest users of the NHS.

😂

Tbf it is a million reasons. People who don’t pay into the system, unnecessary procedures like IVF, gender reassignments, compo payouts from being sued - all of it is taking money out.

Tbf, it’s largely an ageing population. All other demands fade into insignificance by comparison.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/a-definition-of-anti-muslim-hostility

@TemperanceWest - care to comment further?

Well given the percentage of young people who apparently can’t find work, it’s only going to get worse.

It isn’t the fault of older people that they are living longer. What’s the alternative? They have generally paid in all their lives, without being able to claim money from the state. The fact that successive governments have ballsed things up is the issue.

The system needs an overhaul (NOT the Reform way). It’s not currently fit for purpose when you end up spending 24 hours on a trolley in a corridor, being cared for by staff who are doing their best but there’s a language/accent barrier. And where records don’t get shared.

And people take the decision that no longer engaging in the services is a better option than dealing with the system.

Yes, of course 🙂

You asked:

Where are we on the Islamophobia proposed laws? As surely that is going to backfire massively. Has it been parked?

I replied:

There are no Islamophobia laws being proposed and there never has been.

The link you have quoted says:

"An overview of the government’s new non-statutory definition of anti‑Muslim hostility, what it seeks to address and its intended application"

Do you understand what "non-statutory definition" means? It means it is not law. Which the document you linked to clearly emphasises. It is basically best practice guidance.

So, what I said was correct.

Aneurin (leftie!) Bevan's health service was created at a time of lower life expectancy as already stated, but also before developments in science and technology meant we could diagnose and cure the uncurable. Research, equipment, treatments and drugs are available he couldn't have dreamed of. At a cost.
And we simply can't have it all, can we? We can't expect thousands of pounds worth of tests, drugs, surgery and interventions that keep us alive for many years longer for free, and for no one to pay extra NI or tax.
The ordinary people don't want to pay more tax, the right say we can't possibly tax the rich. So what to do? Because the amount the NHS spends on the stereotype 'illegal', young strong healthy 'fighting age' man, isn't going to touch the sides.

Wouldn't be laughing should it happened though Wouldn't you....unless you are one of them then I'm sure you'd be over the moon

No it hasn't though. Please educate yourself. Look at Iran before 1979!!

Not sure why you felt the need to point out that Bevan was a ‘leftie’. Surely everyone knows that?

And of course the only people who claim they want to pay more tax are on MN 😆

The amount of money wasted on bureaucracy and unnecessary spending could make plenty of difference.

Again, many/most of these old people with the audacity to live longer have paid in.

If they want to keep people alive and as healthy as possible then concentrate on that. Take out the unnecessary parts, it all helps

Iran was a majority Muslim country long before 1979 and the founding of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Islamization of Iran - Wikipedia https://share.google/rARAz69b30Tus0rkR

Tired of seeing leftie used as a pejorative and the daft stereotypes of woke snowflakes.
How much is wasted on unecessary parts and bureaucracy exactly? What could be stripped out and how much would it save?

A relative of mine has just been given a large payout to take redundancy from the finance division of our local NHS Trust. Then immediately rehired on some sort of zero hours contract doing the same job 🤷‍♀️. I know it used to happen years ago when I worked for BT but they put a stop to it. I’m sure there are some financial shenanigans that show a saving but still seems all sorts of wrong. And yet they only employ one guy to do Picc Lines in the hospital which means people (like me) can go home and have their antibiotics done there. He chooses who he does as he can’t do everyone on the list. Thank you for choosing me. I was in there for 6 weeks and witnessed so much unnecessary waste.

Well I have never used the term ‘woke snowflakes’ in my life.

I have also not said I object to the NHS treating ‘illegal’ immigrants.

Obviously I don’t have the figures any more than you do but can you not see that it isn’t fit for purpose so cutbacks of non vital services need to be made?

Do you not think that having a computer system where people update records and, for example, patients’ GPs can see it, would save money?

Even within the GP surgery, the system the medical staff see can be different (and less comprehensive) than the one the receptionist sees. And the inability to communicate follow up appointments.

And yes I know this because this has all happened on more than one occasion.

If I were to list all the things I think are a waste of money then I would probably be banned but should we really be paying for someone to have frankengenitals to support some delusion? Or treating people who have come here (legally) to have an extensive surgeries? Or anything elective?

Tbf much is state mandated through death or imprisonment. The majority are turning away from the religion.

When demand outstrips capacity you have to reduce demand or increase capacity.
In the case of the NHS, I'd personally like to see a focus on the first. There is a proven link between poverty and high demand for health services, so I'd like to see investment in reducing poverty rather than the false economy of cutting benefits, making people poorer and in need of more costly services down the line.
I'd like to see better health education and incentives for healthier choices. Subsidies of healthy foods and gym membership.
Then I'd be wanting to look at increasing capacity. Obviously cutting waste is part of that, but the hard truth is, that more money will still be needed.
I'm not going to get into deciding as a lay person which treatments should be provided. I have my own opinions but I'm not a member of an ethics board.

I'd rather have the Equalities Act than an MP who knows what a woman is though id rather have both.

The EA was a really important part of the fightback on behalf of women's rights in the UK. Our legislation isn't perfect, but it is based on preventing discrimination based on characteristics not specific groups (and therefore a better bulwark against hyper identity politics than the laws America had IMO). It was a very tough battle, and women should never have needed to fight it, but eg the legal finding that the rights of one group can't trump another (there is no hierarchy of characteristics) was really important.

Regardless of whether individual MPs know what a woman is, things like the EA are intended to protect rights for everyone no matter who gets into power. Which is why parties who want to remove that legislation (Reform) are a problem for me. It wouldn't just make discrimination based on sex (pregnancy, sexual harassment etc) easier. It would undo over a decade of hard work of GC women. So yes, women voting reform is an interesting choice... Even if single sex spaces is their priority over abortion, employment rights, DV.