AIBU to think women voting Reform are voting against themselves?

[Peaceandquietandacuppa]

AIBU to think that any woman voting for Reform is like a Turkey voting for Christmas?

the latest debacle - Rob Kenyon refusing to simply apologise for commenting on a disgusting post about Carol Vorderman’s areshole where he said “we’re all thinking the same thing”.

He was given the chance and chose instead to say “ I didn’t write the post” and “it was a long time ago”

Reform support him and say women are clutching their pearls at “mild tweets”. We all know from the many many threads on MN. That women face abuse every day and are most at danger from men they know. These men walk among us every day without us knowing. And if they feel so empowered to publically like a tweet saying they would love to lick a woman’s a*sehole or that women have abortions so they can “shag around” we all know that’s the tip of the iceberg in terms of their true thoughts. What about the Reform candidate who was convicted of kicking his partner while she lay on the ground outside a nightclub and Reform simply said “he’s done his time”

I attach a copy of what our dear friend Nigel wrote after the Sarah Everard case. Where was the energy he is giving for Henry Nowak? Oh wait because the perpetrator was a white man there was no opportunity to create tensions that suit his agenda.

IABU - women who vote Reform need to wake up, and fast

IANBU - I agree with Rob Kenyon and all the other things they have said against women (I’d love to hear why if you don’t mind)

I’m from a white, working class, industrial area, and we’re not ignored.

We get a vote just like everybody else.

The fact that some from my area are concerned about immigration is positively ludicrous, it’s 96.3% white British.

There were less than 500 people on the last census who confirmed their ethnicity to be anything other than white.

If that is their biggest concern, they need new ones.

Everyone’s on a superficial level. Look at what won people over last time. Change and smash the gangs.

Labour are a party that is underpinned by a centre left ideology. Meaning a bigger state that provides its citizens with essentials, funded via taxation, so paid for on the basis of means not need; and a belief that too much inequality of wealth, opportunity and advantage hinders the functioning of society.

Labour were the party of the WC when the working class were a more homogenous group who collectively saw the benefit in this ideology to their own lives.
If some of the WC now want to pay less tax, sort out their own health care, seperate from other working class people because they are a different ethnicity or race or weren't born in the UK, reduce the welfare state, then Labour isn't the party for them.
Equally if middle class people think Labour's approach is better for society as a whole then Labour is for them.

Reform get my vote. I'm not a plant, I have 2 degrees, one being a masters.

I fear with the left we'll eventually become the new Iran

„Labour are a party that is underpinned by a centre left ideology. Meaning a bigger state that provides its citizens with essentials, funded via taxation, so paid for on the basis of means not need; and a belief that too much inequality of wealth, opportunity and advantage hinders the functioning of society.“

„Labour were the party of the WC when the working class were a more homogenous group who collectively saw the benefit in this ideology to their own lives.
If some of the WC now want to pay less tax, sort out their own health care, seperate from other working class people because they are a different ethnicity or race or weren't born in the UK, reduce the welfare state, then Labour isn't the party for them.
Equally if middle class people think Labour's approach is better for society as a whole then Labour is for them.“

I don’t think most working class Reform voters disagree with much of the above @5128gap It seems more that they have a different definition of what is essentials and who is allowed to be part of that „society“.
I don’t think most want to reduce the welfare state just not share it with what they see as the whole world coming here and have their jobs taken and their class no longer being the main beneficiaries of the welfare state.
I sort of understand how if the welfare state was created to look after you and yours that may be the case.
It is like you promise a child a brand new exciting toy and they play with it and it gets passed down the generations. But suddenly others show up and they get custody of the toy 80 per cent of the time.
At least that is my understanding of how some of them see it, namely that the welfare state is their birth right and it’s being diluted by immigration. Not that they want to pay less tax or have the welfare state destroyed necessarily, just limit who gets to benefit from it.

If thats is what they think then they need to pay more attention, as Reform have been pretty clear that they intend to reduce the welfare bill and that cutting benefits is high priority. Across thf board, not just for people new to the UK.
I think support for this from WC people comes from those who are not on benefits and can't imagine a time when their circumstances might change so they might need to be, and people who are on benefits who naively believe it will be other people's benefits that will be reduced, not their own.

When I grew up it was the mines, the dockyard or the navy, but they closed all the mines, stopped building ships and reduced the navy to a shadow of its former self.
I agree that we need to bring back apprenticeships and skilled manual labour courses at college, but I've watched what's happened to education and the indoctrination of children over the last couple of decades as they've stopped teaching critical thinking and the basics opting instead to push various forms of batshit crazy theories on kids, I mean let's be honest up here in Scotland we've had schools teaching nursery kids about "the rights of the child" (that would be a scot government policy that they try to make law but it was struck down under a section 33 order as its outwith their perveiw of the Scottish government but they still teach it) for almost 18 years.
The system is broken and needs to go back to one where we don't have university seen as the be all and end all of education

@5128gap - the welfare state is not just unemployment benefits or even universal credit top ups. It includes healthcare, state education, state pension, all services etc. The majority of Reform voters are beneficiaries of the welfare state (in the broad sense, not the narrow unemployment benefits sense). The majority get back more from the state than they put in. But I think the majority belief the State spends badly on non essentials, including on people they aren’t meant to be spending on.
At least that is my understanding of it.

I agree. While university is seen as the only goal worth aspiring to we will continue to churn out young people who feel they've been written off as failures before they've even started.

Anyway, I am not here to defend Reform but they aren’t scrapping the NHS. They have 20 policies on their website currently and it includes:
“Under a Reform UK Government, the NHS will remain free at the point of use, funded by general taxation. We will improve the NHS by working to redirect funding from back office bloat back into frontline services. Successive Conservative and Labour Governments have failed our NHS, leaving patient satisfaction and clinical outcomes at record lows.”

This is what it says:
“Work should always be rewarded.

We will cut taxes on workers, reduce the burden on families, and ensure that people are always better off in work than on benefits.

The welfare system will support only those British citizens who cannot get by without government help, and it will no longer trap people in dependency or penalise effort.

If you work hard and play by the rules, Britain should work for you.”

But it also says:
“Family is the foundation of society.

We will reduce the financial pressures that stop working people starting families, support parents, and remove policies that make having children unaffordable.

Britain's future depends on supporting the next generation.”

And here is the stuff about benefits to those who came here:

“The era of cheap, low-skilled foreign labour is over. Reform UK will end the scam of mass immigration and finally put British citizens first.

The Conservative Party's failed immigration policies allowed 3.8 million people (96% non-EU) into the country on long-term visas during the Boriswave (2021-2024). About half of these migrants will never work. Between tel:2026-2030 800,000 2026-2030 800,000 of these migrants are expected to receive Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR), giving them access to benefits, ultimately costing the UK taxpayer a minimum of £234 billion.

Reform will abolish ILR and rescind existing awards. Reform will introduce a 5 year renewable visa for migrants with higher salary thresholds, mandatory fluency in English, and stricter good character requirements. There will be no recourse to benefits for foreign nationals. Shortage visas will be issued in limited and capped numbers only when there are clear and acute shortages in national-critical roles (with the visa sponsor also required to train up a British worker).”

I mean can they even legally rescind ILR already granted? I am not at fait on existing laws in this area, but sounds suspect to me and like they would need to change existing laws first https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/revoking-an-indefinite-leave-to-remain-in-the-uk-process/revocation-of-indefinite-leave-accessible

So unless they get a majority to change the law, I doubt they will get this through. But I have not checked thoroughly.
I guess someone needs to go through the 20 policies and check what is legal currently and what is not!

Vorderman is gross. Leftists want men in women’s spaces. Reform will sort the country out.

She really is gross isn't she!😂

Actually I think Farage and his pals in America will benefit quite nicely.

But yes the rest of the country will be screwed.

No she’s not gross. The person who’s gross is the misogynist piece of shit who posted that vile tweet and the vile men who applauded him. They’re not fit to lick her boots.

Re: white working class areas being ignored, did you know the current govt is investing £5.8 billion in these areas with its Pride in Place programme? To be invested - working with people from the area to decide how it's best spent - over the next 10 years. I'm not a massive fan of Starmer TBH but this seems like a fantastic long term investment. Not enough is heard about the good and meaningful things the govt is doing unfortunately.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pride-in-place-programme-prospectus/pride-in-place-programme-prospectus

@PeachOctopus

Seems to be based on voluntary engagement.

How are they going to help children whose parents won't engage? That is one of the key factors in the poor outcomes for white working class boys.

Please have a look at the Reform manifesto. If you vote Reform, please make sure that you have lots of money for medical bills and you don't mind having women's rights taken back to the dark ages. All of the things that make life bearable will be slowly eroded, maternity pay, sickness pay, holidays, secure jobs.
If that is acceptable to you, then fair enough, vote for them.