AIBU to think women voting Reform are voting against themselves?

[Peaceandquietandacuppa]

AIBU to think that any woman voting for Reform is like a Turkey voting for Christmas?

the latest debacle - Rob Kenyon refusing to simply apologise for commenting on a disgusting post about Carol Vorderman’s areshole where he said “we’re all thinking the same thing”.

He was given the chance and chose instead to say “ I didn’t write the post” and “it was a long time ago”

Reform support him and say women are clutching their pearls at “mild tweets”. We all know from the many many threads on MN. That women face abuse every day and are most at danger from men they know. These men walk among us every day without us knowing. And if they feel so empowered to publically like a tweet saying they would love to lick a woman’s a*sehole or that women have abortions so they can “shag around” we all know that’s the tip of the iceberg in terms of their true thoughts. What about the Reform candidate who was convicted of kicking his partner while she lay on the ground outside a nightclub and Reform simply said “he’s done his time”

I attach a copy of what our dear friend Nigel wrote after the Sarah Everard case. Where was the energy he is giving for Henry Nowak? Oh wait because the perpetrator was a white man there was no opportunity to create tensions that suit his agenda.

IABU - women who vote Reform need to wake up, and fast

IANBU - I agree with Rob Kenyon and all the other things they have said against women (I’d love to hear why if you don’t mind)

I didn’t call anyone thick. I stated a fact that in general people who vote Reform are lower educated, and I backed this up.

I bet if you googled it and found some studies about education and political allegiance, you would find similar. Maybe not Reform but far right parties, and the effectiveness of misinformation by education level.

I also used my wide acedotal evidence that holds true pretty consistently. Naturally, people always take offence at this. How can fact be offensive?

Wasn't it Starmer who had the slogans "smash the gangs" and "Take control of our borders" he also had another 3 word slogan on the front of a lecturn recently.

I think the Conservatives started it during Covid and it seems to be the "fashionable" thing to do now.

Yes why do pp think Labour don’t use simple slogans and soundbites?

The problem is that to truly stop the rise of extremism parties, the politicians should look at why people are voting for them. It’s easy to say racism and of course that WILL be part of it.

However I don’t think poor people are more likely to be racist. There is something that is missing in current politics and that’s what Reform is taking advantage of.

I don’t have any answers but I think this needs to be done at the top level. The world is very divided right now and whilst the people are pulling each other apart, those pulling the strings are happy.

(that probably made more sense in my head than written down but hopefully you get the gist)

40% of adults have a reading age between 9-11 years.
That’s after 13 years of full time education!

Do plenty of people still vote for them knowing that they are lying, manipulating, slimy grifters who are going to take their rights away to enrich themselves?

Do you think plenty of reform voters are well aware they are going to lose their rights as well as those they don’t like?

Do you think they know their economic plans don’t add up?

Well yeah, if they are aware of all that, then they are literally spiteful bigots and racists. They never admit that though. It’s all ‘’genuine concern’’.

Even if no member of Reform had made offensive or inappropriate comments, their policies will make most people on lower incomes poorer. Who are more likely to be women than men in total.

Its not a new thing for white working class boys to leave school without a bunch of certificates. This long predates any notions of white privilege. The thing that's new is that it's become a problem because there is nowhere for them to go if they have more practical skills based, but less academic, leanings.
There was a time when white working class boys who were not academically inclined (which is not all WWCB, and nor is it anything to be ashamed of, we need trade, production and labour, it has value) there was a time when from the age of around 14, these boys were given the opportunity to learn things that interested them, they were good at, and could see a point to. Practical vocational courses that led to a job in an industry.
When I was at school, this was mining. Now I see boys who would have been training for this work forced to sit in classrooms learning Shakespeare sonnets and cloud formations they see no value in and will have no use for.
I live in this community, I've raised my sons here. If you think the problems white working class boys are experiencing stems from being accused of white privilege, you are badly out of touch. Most of them will never have even heard of it.

Look I’m not one of them but I’m naive enough to think people can vote how they like. I think they would be a disaster in office, the likes of which has never been seen in this country.

However the major parties are already chipping away at the freedoms of women and children in other ways.

Our own PM said that 99% of women don’t have penises.

The girls affected by the grooming scandal in Telford had a right not to be groomed and raped but successive governments have let them down, then and still now.

The people in the post office scandal had a right not to lose their jobs (and in some cases their lives) but they have been let down.

The system is fucked and until it is fixed there are always chancers

All political parties use slogans and alliterations for memory ‘Get Brexit done!’ ‘Build back better’ ‘Smash the gangs’.

The difference with reform is they never go into any detail whatsoever. They can never explain the ‘how’ they will do something, even in their literature. It’s all grievance, simple slogans, simple solutions that sound good, but no meat whatsoever. Considering the number of press conferences and addresses to the nation he does, that’s a bit weird, really.

His followers don’t seem to have any curiosity about how he is planning to achieve his promises, or think about the possible flaws in his logic. They pay £5 to sit and listen to him tell them what they want to hear at one of his meetings.

He tends to avoid any scrutiny, and when he speaks to the press they let him off too lightly or he just goes mad and starts with DARVO and deflection techniques and walks off like a scolded schoolboy.

Again with the name calling.

Your claim is that people with fewer formal qualifications are more susceptible to misinformation and manipulation.

There are many forms of intelligence. If academic attainment is the measure of political judgement, should we therefore celebrate the politicians and advisers with the highest qualifications who were responsible for delivering the following:

The Iraq War.
PFI contracts that left taxpayers with huge long-term costs
Financial deregulation
The housing crisis
Students loans
A benefits system that too often fails both taxpayers and those genuinely in need of support.
Energy policies that have given us the highest costs in Europe
Criminal justice policies that some believe have resulted in unduly lenient sentences for serious offenders especially in crimes against women
Gender policies/ messaging that many women feel were introduced with little regards for the hard won rights of women or their protection.
The sale of this country's "family silver" (and it's actual gold).
And every other tax on aspiration!

And what does that say about the highly educated people who repeatedly voted for these governments and policies while expecting different results?

So are Reform voters any worse than the millions of people who have repeatedly voted for Labour and the Conservatives? Both parties have held power for decades and have overseen policies that have caused significant long-term damage.

The voting doesn’t make sense so i
might have voted the wrong way, but I agree with you 100%

Its not about Reform voters being 'worse'. It's about a recognition that there is a significant number of the electorate who understand politics only on a superficial level, either due to lack of capacity to understand or motivation to learn.
These people have always existed and tended to either vote as they'd always done and their families before them, or floated, based on one issue of self interest (eg voting Tory to buy your council house).
Reform has managed to coral these voters together with their simple quick fix rhetoric. So they are over represented amongst Reform supporters, leading to the link between Reform support and being less politically aware.

Yes I forgot about this, I went to get ready to go out and got stuck answering other people. Your comment seemed longer and I wanted to answer it properly when I get back, and I will. But FYI for one thing I was ineligible to vote when a lot of that happened 😂

It is still happening.

This is just your political bias. Labour voters are swayed by slogans and sound bites. And along the way they lose voters as people realise they were empty ones.

No, I think it is a backlash against the concept of “equity”. It is a standard lie of the Left that you can bring everyone up to the same level if you only do X, Y and Z and invest and do A, B or C.
And with the ultimate aim being “equity” of all, you play groups of against each other. No minority group is ever more inherently worthy than another.

So now we have an absurd situation where does who just want equality for all (rather than equity) are being told they are Right Wing. And with that comes a big voting shift.

OK sorry for all the typos in last post!

I think common sense veers towards “equality for all”.
Whereas “equity” for those currently in fashion/trend is actually too divisive. It is noble somewhat but results in absurdities. And that is where we find ourselves.

Its not political bias, its an observation on voter behaviour. And seemingly one you agree with, given we are saying the exact same thing.
That there is a demographic who are able to be swayed by slogans and soundbites and that the party who wins votes from this group in this way, will lose them when they can't deliver.
I'm simply applying our shared understanding of this phenomenon to the current upsurge in support for Reform, and the likely trajectory should Reform win power.
You can apply it to Labour too if you like, but given Labour are not the party currently benefitting from it, I'm not sure it's relevent at present.

As a woman, you are as threatened by the Far Left as you are by the Far Right. The Far Left not wanting to acknowledge your Minority Status as Minority enough and the Far Right wanting to control your body and chain you back to the kitchen sink.

So as a woman, both options are shit.

Of course it’s relevant, they just got in in 2024. It worked then and now it’s not.

They still use the same tactics as other parties. They are trying still now to use them.

So yes soundbites and slogans are used but Reform voters are not alone in being swayed, and other groups are self-describing as especially critical thinkers when it’s not the case.

Which political party would be advantageous to women?
OP you aren't necessarily wrong about Reform, but you are disingenuous, as women voting for labour, lib dem, plaid, green and probably conservative (based on track record rather than manifesto) would all also be turkeys voting for Christmas.

So the choice currently for women is to either spoil their ballot paper thus not exercising the right to vote, which as women we have only had for 100 years, and is therefore a fragile thing, or choosing the least worst option, which in your opinion isn't Reform, and you are entitled to that opinion, but women who vote for Reform have equally valid views.

The thing is Reform is kind of moderate compared to Restore though. Reform seems to me to just be more hardcore Tory now (without the progressive liberalism of recent years in the Tories).

It is Restore coming in, that gives Reform more legitimacy. But it is Reform being there that then also makes the Tories more centre ground.

Absolutely. I've noticed a few little hints from Reform voters on here to this effect. "You better deal with me because you really don't want to face my dog.."

Don’t you think though it’s because the party designed for the working class, less university educated people-the Labour Party was taken over by the Islington Guardian reading, chattering classes?
You say they are ‘less politically aware’ but
if they have issues that are not being addressed by the mainstream then they will looking for representation elsewhere.

If you are on the breadline then your focus may not be on Green energy making the UK have the most expensive electricity in the developed world, or the Chagos deal, trans ideology etc etc, also high immigration seems ideological on the Left - voters have voted for less immigration at every election as the competition for resources and jobs is more acute a the bottom end.

Deprivation - working class white areas are the most deprived with lowest life expectancy in the country and are ignored.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/english-indices-of-deprivation-2025/english-indices-of-deprivation-2025-statistical-release