AIBU to think women voting Reform are voting against themselves?

[Peaceandquietandacuppa]

AIBU to think that any woman voting for Reform is like a Turkey voting for Christmas?

the latest debacle - Rob Kenyon refusing to simply apologise for commenting on a disgusting post about Carol Vorderman’s areshole where he said “we’re all thinking the same thing”.

He was given the chance and chose instead to say “ I didn’t write the post” and “it was a long time ago”

Reform support him and say women are clutching their pearls at “mild tweets”. We all know from the many many threads on MN. That women face abuse every day and are most at danger from men they know. These men walk among us every day without us knowing. And if they feel so empowered to publically like a tweet saying they would love to lick a woman’s a*sehole or that women have abortions so they can “shag around” we all know that’s the tip of the iceberg in terms of their true thoughts. What about the Reform candidate who was convicted of kicking his partner while she lay on the ground outside a nightclub and Reform simply said “he’s done his time”

I attach a copy of what our dear friend Nigel wrote after the Sarah Everard case. Where was the energy he is giving for Henry Nowak? Oh wait because the perpetrator was a white man there was no opportunity to create tensions that suit his agenda.

IABU - women who vote Reform need to wake up, and fast

IANBU - I agree with Rob Kenyon and all the other things they have said against women (I’d love to hear why if you don’t mind)

I fundamentally disagree with pretty much everything Farage & Reform stand for.

But I have to say, even if I didn’t; and immigration was a key driver to my voting habits, I still couldn’t vote for them.

I think we all have to have our own “hard lines,” women’s rights and disability are mine.

Once they’ve finished coming for migrants, my rights and my son will be next, so it’s a forever no from me.

So people without degrees are incapable of critical thinking? Wow. Okay. You should probably remove the vote for all the non grads then 😳

I am highly intelligent and do a technical role which most people don’t understand the job description for, let alone the job, and wouldn’t be capable of doing. The field didn’t exist when I was at school anyway but I wasn’t fully engaged with my education in any case - I turned up every day but was bored out of my mind.

I didn’t go to uni and have had no formal training. However I am instinctively good at what I do. I am also required to have critical thinking skills. Fortunately my employer chose to believe I was capable.

I know people who went to uni and do the job they qualified for and yet they are of mediocre intelligence at best and certainly aren’t capable of critical thinking

They'll be too busy lining their pockets to change any.

Any major party who has the bollocks (no pun intended) to admit that a man can’t be a woman or have access to women only spaces regardless of whether they have had their cock removed would create a new option for those who care about protecting women and children. Because nobody wants to stick their head above the parapet on an issue which is a major concern for many.

Tell me OP which party are the best at supporting women’s rights and safety?

Exactly. Apparently it’s okay to ignore safety and tell women how they should vote - ironic from people who are railing against the right wing.

And that's different from green voters how?

Exactly when it is the left I see eroding women’s safety and rights the most.

You lost me at when you admitted to living in Dubai....

So you are now implying that if someone can't spell they are dumb or uneducated, do you think that someone with dyslexia is dumb because most of us can't spell

You’re making things up now, aren’t you? I didn’t exactly say people without degrees are incapable of critical thinking, I caveated it and said this:

It isn’t everything. You don’t need a degree, plenty of people who don’t have them don’t fall for shite, but it helps. It would be great if those skills were taught at high school.

Ironically though, you’ve kind of proven my point, because if you do end up voting for Reform then the reason why will be because you take what you want out of what people say and run with it, instead of paying close attention to what was actually said and the meaning behind it.

You also seemed quick to take offence at what you thought I said, so you fit the mould quite well, really.

The average reading age for an adult in the UK is between 9 and 11 years old. 40% of adults report difficulties in understanding public information, for example on health or social issues. This is the reality of the make up of our society, and its not offensive to acknowledge it.
Nor is it offensive to acknowledge that if a person is in this 40% then they may struggle to access, digest and draw conclusions from the more complex information available to inform political decisions.
Reform have cleverly understood and capitalised on this. Their messages are delivered in soundbites. The talk about straightforward outcomes without boring or bogging people down in the detail. They tell people what the problem is (immigration) and tell them they'll fix it. Simple language like 'stop the boats' in place of lengthy statements about net this and positive that.
Its ever likely they've gained a strong following amongst people who may struggle to engage with traditional political discourse, and there are lessons for Labour there.
However, it doesn't tend to work so well when you need to explain the complex reasons why you can't actually give people everything they want right now and all at once. If they ever gained power it would be interesting to watch Reform 'the voice of the people' try to navigate that.

I’m not a reform voter,in fact I’m politically homeless.
Boris Johnson if I recall was apparently a supporter for Brexit and he won the election.
The country is messed up and we have many issues but blaming it on reform for these issues when they haven’t had any power is madness.
We have had a Tory government that caused austerity and huge cuts which has caused so many of the problems this country faces today.
Im not a fan of Farage but we surely can’t say he’s the only one with misogynistic views and has caused all this.
Under Tory government, they allowed trans rights to become what it did. Womens hard won rights to be taken just like that to be told your a terf etc to want safe spaces, protected sex rights etc , women losing their jobs for speaking up and the violent backlash they have received for this while the elected government sat by and allowed all this to happen.
Brexit was under David Cameron.
Starmer and all the other cronies who ignored child grooming gangs not funding education, cutting funds for public services etc the list goes on.
These are all the rules and laws made by the elected government.
People are very quick to make fun and laugh at the people who vote reform saying they are uneducated toothless thugs and how could they possible vote for those people the hypocrisy is mindboggling.

I don’t think anyone is immune. Just one section think they are critically assessing more.

No, I’ve said poor spelling in the sheer numbers that are concentrated to one particular voter base indicates there’s not just dyslexia at play, it will be poor schooling/education. I didn’t dismiss dyslexia or other learning disabilities, though.

It teaches critical thinking skills and how to decipher information, how to judge its accuracy.
It isn’t everything. You don’t need a degree, plenty of people who don’t have them don’t fall for shite, but it helps. It would be great if those skills were taught at high school

Wow. I wouldn’t vote Reform if there was a gun to my head. I think Farage is a swivel eyed loon.

Your post implies that critical thinking is something that can only be obtained from a degree currently.

Plenty of people with degrees fall for all kinds of shite (the current government illustrates that). But that doesn’t suit your narrative.

If it makes you feel that being university educated means you are better placed to know what’s truth and what isn’t, you crack right on. Your attitude and prejudice isn’t for me to change 🤷‍♀️

Oh and the irony of accusing someone of taking offence when you are coming across as offended by the idea that not only graduates are intelligent is rather sweet.

Well some people do critically assess more than others, it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise. My point is that Reform have found a way to engage those who do so less.
I watched members of the public being interviewed in Makerfield and two stood out to me. One woman who said she was voting Reform because Farage was the first politician who she'd "understood what he was on about". Another young man who said he'd been torn between Reform and Labour (as though they're not chasms apart) and "stop the boats had swung it" for him.
Reform are offering a politics 'lite' that is attractive to people who can't or don't wish to critically assess, so it stands to reason that people in these groups will be well represented amongst Reform voters.
I'm sure if a left wing politician stood up and said "Lower the rents, landlords are making enough from you! Make things cheaper in the shops because Tesco is rich enough!" They'd get a lot of support too.

Not really. Labour have found a way to get people to believe their lines. All parties have.

Id say that they are perfectly positioned to both recognise and understand the failings of the current education system that is leaving white working class boys with the worst educational attainment of all groups. That they've most likely suffered from and education environment that is more interested in teaching them that they are privileged, responsible for all the evils in the world, owe reparations and are racist from birth by the dint of being born white than teaching the basics.
Whereas when I hear middle class lefties like yourself spouting your offensive, classist and abilist talking points whilst denigrating anyone who didn't go to university to be indoctrinated in woke illiberal racist nonsense i feel very sorry for them having wasted so much time and money at university especially as most of them cant understand basic biology or even being able to defend their illogical stock party line statements

No, critical thinking can be self taught, definitely. It’s just that university level education exposes you to it, where you may not have been exposed previously. They don’t teach you at secondary school, or even A level very often.

All I’m saying is if people questioned what reform say a bit more, started recognising dog whistling and other manipulative language techniques and the intent behind why they were saying it, they wouldn’t get anywhere close to the support they do.

They know what they’re doing tapping into people’s fear system. It’s the best way to get people to be putty in your hands begging to be saved. That’s why there’s so many cheering on the removal of their own hard won rights.

Agree

But again, I didn’t say only graduates are intelligent. I’ve actually never said that.

😂

Reform ALLLLLLLL the way!!!!

Okay fair enough. But plenty of people who are perfectly capable of understanding all that still vote for them. And that is 100% the fault of the main parties. They won’t take a stand on things that affect people’s day to day lives. So people become politically homeless and even vote for Reform as a protest.

I can think of little worse than a Reform Government but instead of calling those who would vote for them thick, the main parties need to provide a solution to whatever it is making them vote that way.

I had to vote for a minority party (not Reform) for the first time in my voting life in the last election. It was horrible as I knew it would make no difference. But I couldn’t vote for anyone else on the ballot.