Are parents too involved in teenagers' A levels and independence compared to how they used to be?

[Theboredpanda]

…and is this helpful or detrimental to young people? I just saw a thread on here about parents talking about how “they’re” getting through A Levels at the moment. The “they’re” meaning them and their kids. I’d say I had good, supportive parents, but by A Levels and college they had no idea what I was doing day-to-day. They couldn’t tell you what exams I was sitting on what days unless I told them. Although I was still living at home, I was expected to be independent by that age and be doing my own thing with minimal support from my parents. This was in the early 2000s, was this other people’s experience of back then and do you think parents are too involved in their teenagers lives these days and is this stopping them from becoming independent?

Also, all my friends who are doctors or dentists are involved when their kids go down that path, ditto lawyers, bankers etc. Tells you more.

My Mum couldn't have helped me despite going to a grammar school herself. She hated it, the uniform, the hat, the indoor shoes, the cooking classes and needlework by hand. She left school at 15 which was the leaving age back then. She hated every second of school and I am not sure she even left with one qualification. My Dad on the other hand went to a technical college and got HND qualifications but he worked abroad for weeks at a time so was hardly home. Everything was left to school to teach us and I had no help with homework or revision. I got by and went to uni but I wished I had had the same support Dh had when he was growing up (middle class, SAHM)

So I did support my children with their homework but more on the how to research and how to put an answer together not the actual doing. School also taught the parents this too, we were invited into school with our children and sat through an elaborate play put on by the theatre students, honestly it was amazing. This was a state school. It was all about which source you could trust and why you should corroborate your sources.

Yes I knew what books they were studying for GCSE because again school invited us in, talked us through revision techniques, pointed out the important things of what sort of answers get the best marks. They made us do some of the work too that our children were doing. They provided all the revision books for free and used them in class alongside their work. The school was outstanding and had an incredible Progress 8 score. I also put scaffolding in place to enable them to succeed, if they forgot something I would ask how do you think you would remember it next time? Teaching them to solve their own problems never jumping in and telling them.

All this helicoptering just meant that Dh and I were a sounding board for things like A level choices and uni choices because we were the ones driving them to open days, looking over their spreadsheet of uni choices, grades. Both my children went to uni, both have excelled, Ds landed a graduate job all by himself, no input from us at all. It doesn't all mean your child is incapable of doing things by themselves. We are just here to talk to as both Dh and I went to uni.

Plus a lot of parents will have put their child through the 11+ probably with tutoring and then that school experience is probably very different from your average state school. Mine had mixed sets for language GCSE and it was a fucking disaster. Even though the school was incredible, this was hard for mine.

I turned to a specific teacher on MN for help and she was incredible. Some children are not mature enough to see the big picture, the playing field isn't level, there are parents paying huge amounts of money to ensure their child has a better and more rounded education than mine.

I’ve already pointed out there was a train strike
So very exceptional circumstances that has nothing to do with what this thread is all about!

If you mean her dad's embarrassment at having few qualifications then it's to do with his gcses not a degree. He has few gcses and nothing higher than that. He could have done if he'd had support or even mildly interested parents. Uni wouldn't have been for him and that's fine.

I also said (admittedly in a different post) that I don't want to push DD to uni as I don't think it would be a good fit. I agree that it would be crazy to have to give her this much support and expect her to get through uni on her own. I just want her to pass gcses. I realise now that the OP was about a levels but I just wanted to give the perspective of someone that does help her DD a fair bit to get through the current exams.

I do think it's easy to take a laid back approach when you know your children are just getting on with things and will do well. It feels like so much else in parenting - not understanding why others find breastfeeding hard (that was probably me), not understanding why other parents haven't got their babies into a good sleep routine (definitely not me!). People are different and need different levels of support. I absolutely wish I wasn't in the position where I am having to supervise revision but I am. I don't think I will be having to do the same for other DC. So have I just been a particularly poor parent to DD and a better parent to other DC? Or maybe kids are all different.

I think this is an issue to an extent.

But the schools encourage it by insisting on setting projects at primary school which quite obviously will be done by the parents (a 6 year old simply can't produce the artworks they've allegedly produced and the teachers must know that).

And then there's all the telling parents about minor misdemeanours in the classroom instead of simply disciplining the children and imposing consequences in school. If my son hits a child that's one thing. if he flips a rubber across the room, that should be dealt with in school.

If you want children to be independent, then stop involving parents so much and get the kids to get on with it. And stop setting projects in primary school that you know the parents will (have to) do.

I'd love to hear from some parents who took a completely hands off approach, their kids failed their gcses, failed their resits, struggled to find a job and were struggling with their self esteem. I'm wondering if they would still be as happy with their completely hands off approach? Or maybe all the hands off parents think that it always results in kids excelling in everything they try as they have learnt so much confidence and resilience.

Our local group is over 18s and I was thinking that you can't realistically expect a 15 year old to look for work experience themselves.

But then I remembered that I got a Saturday job at 15 and wrote letters myself with no involvement from my parents at all! But then I don't know if writing letters would even work these days.

However, I do think if a school wants the kids to do work experience it needs to help arrange the placements - not everyone has the contacts to help.

We are involved parents. We are Indian. There's something about us and that's a reason we get better grades in the UK than white British

Very true what some posters have said about them not being about to cope at uni/with the real world if their parents are over-involved. I think kids need to be allowed to mature and become independent in the security of their home and learn that they need to be accountable to themselves and no-one else gradually, rather than being completely supported till the end of school/college then just dumped in the deep end. These are supposedly intelligent, well-educated parents that are micromanaging their kids, you’d think they’d know that they’re setting them up for failure?? I didn’t do well in my GCSEs despite having pressure and accountability from school and from my dad. But when I went to college at 16 I was treated as an adult at college and was living with my mum with little involvement from my dad (who has always been controlling). My mum had zero involvement in my life at college, not even sure she knew what I was studying lol. I did a foundation to allow me to sit the A levels I couldn’t have sat because of my rubbish GCSE grades and then aced my A levels because I learnt to be accountable to myself but slowly, within my family home. If kids go off to uni and are having to suddenly learn how to be accountable to themselves while also contending with learning to live independently, cook and clean for themselves, and manage new social situations they’re going to fall flat on their faces!

But is that everything? I’d rather my kids got average grades and were also happy, well-rounded people that knew how to socialise well and make friends, were streetwise and had a bit of life experience, rather than being straight A students who were miserable with no friends and no social life. My kids’ happiness is the most important thing to me, not their academic achievement. I find it baffling when parents can live with their child being miserable so long as they get good grades

I don't think it has changed hugely in the last 30 years.

I worked at a University 30 years ago and helped out during clearing. I was amazed at the amount of parents ringing for their child, and we were pretty much told not to speak to parents, only the student themselves.

As a parent of a ND teen sitting A levels this year, I have found them incredibly self sufficient. They attend online school which requires a lot of self motivation. They did their own revision schedule, revision notes and I helped out on one subject where there was overlap with my degree (taking them to the theatre, reading the plays so we could chat about it on walks, directing them to critics I remember). As they sat exams as a private candidate we had to take them to the exam centre as it was a 40 minute drive - so on the actual exam days we probably felt more involved but really its up to them on the day.

I think as one PP said - there is good involvement and overbearing involvement.
At 18 I was very self sufficient - but I think I would have benefited from more parental support. I know my 18 year is very self sufficient academically but still needs support in other areas.

20 years ago my mother helped me five days a week with English and French. We'd sit down together and read through whatever play I was studying (King Lear, or similar). Her help and input was invaluable. I was well above the level of my peers in French because I practised every day with her.

However, she didn't do my school work or coursework. She just helped me understand my texts more deeply, and in turn that prepared me to do the work on my own. Thanks, Mum.

This is why University comes as a shock to many over-involved parents when they have to realise that their sprog is an adult and the Uni, landlords etc. are not obliged/allowed to engage with them at all! They have done their 'child' no favours if the 'child' cannot deal with their own problems as they crop up.

MN is ridiculous on this. Kids are basically expected to survive independently on the dot of 18, or they are supervised to within an inch of their life.
My parents both left school at 15, though doubt my Dad ever attended much. I went to an academic high pressure school, walked through my O levels, but A levels were a shock. My parents didn't have any way of supporting me, they loved me and my mum wanted to help but just didn't have the knowledge. My mainly middle class peers had educated parents and the occasional tutor. I pretty much failed all my A levels.

Consequently I have supported my kids where they have needed it. Bought them revision books, the occasional tutor, offered lifts, stocked up on snacks and didn't expect them to do chores whilst revising, haven't helicoptered and one child was super independant (surprisingly, that one went on to struggle at uni).
But claiming you are so removed from your child's education that you wouldn't even know what days they had which exams is a weird kind of flex.

This is interesting though, as in my grandparent's parenting era (so my parents) it was 21 seen as the adult threshold. 18 wasn't the same thing.

Although I agree with you I do wish my parents had been a little more involved back in the 90s. They wouldn't have been able to tell you what A levels I was taking, how many or what my grades were like 🤷‍♀️

It's really different now - I also don't think my parents even knew what A-levels I was doing - but it comes from the school. The expectations are set by them that you're expected as parents to be much more involved in helping them study, choose universities etc. Also school is much more controlling over sixth form students than in my day (early 90s). They're really strict about phones, uniform, being allowed out at lunchtime, having to do PE etc etc. When I was at sixth form college, it was a lot more like university. But kids are helicoptered more all round these days. I blame Michael Gove!

Seems that way from what I see online.

My two went through A levels 10/14 years ago and other than making them cups of tea and offering to test them the night before exams if they needed it I didn’t get too involved. I think I did read through personal statements because they asked me to, and went to a few open days.

I see lots of posts on fb pages about uni applications and it definitely gives the impression the parents are applying as much as the kids.

Yes there's way too much over involvement, which really really hinders being able to think and act independently and function as an adult in the real world.

Its a huge culture shock for many young people once they're somewhat removed from parental supervision and we see the knock on effects both in universities and workplaces.

I think a lot of parents channel their anxiety in a very damaging way, be it micromanaging their elder teens studies or satellite tracking their locations. It's fucking weird. And frankly shameful how many young people are completely incapable of doing normal everyday tasks without explicit instruction and guidance.

It depends what your dc want to do with their lives. Average grades aren't enough for a lot of things.

Even the grades mentioned above by a pp who said her parents asked her if she was sorted and she got AAA is by no means a below average bunch, but it would fall short of some of the more competitive courses.

And getting good grades doesn't automatically mean you don't know how to socialise well. Sometimes the 18 year old's version of socialising well means drinking too much and throwing up! Someone who is a social success at 18 isn't always a guarantee of future attraction. I know a lady who told her dc "date nerds: they are the ones who you'll think are cool at 40"! It is too easy to generalise about these things.

As for life experience, well, we all get there ... sadly!

I so agree - I am mind-boggled by the over-involvement of parents. I was just left to get on with it, as were my now adult children - I just told them to let me know if there was anything they needed to help them study or if they needed a cup of tea and they just got on with it. All did well.

Why on earth can't a 15 year old look for work experience? I had 3 paid Saturday/after school jobs from age 14 until i left school. I found every job, no help or input from my parents. All of my children did the same.
My Stepson wanted a job a few years ago, all his friends e-mailed their CV's to local companies. Our lad was so shy we had to intervene so we took him to the local library to print off copies of his CV and told him to go round all the local businesses and hand in his CV. He knew we would be following to make sure he did it.
He went into the second place and he was ages. He came out after about 30 mins with a huge grin on his face, he had a job. The owner was delighted that someone was willing to walk in and introduce themselves as she thought it showed he was willing to put the effort in. He worked every Saturday for a year and then did 3 days a week whilst he was at college.
Working there was one of the best things he ever did. The change in him was immense. As he had saved half is wages one week and all of them the next week it got him into really good money management that in turn helped him buy his first flat at 20 years old.

I wouldn't want my children to get average grades and go to crap unis and be locked out of many opportunities. I'd want my children to achieve to the best of their ability.

You can still get top grades (my DC did) and be well rounded, have a social life, be happy.

Schooling and education is important. You can be a good student and once studies are done, have fun with friends and family.

Do you want them to earn well, be able to afford nice things and have a life? When they're on minimum wage jobs struggling to make ends meet will you be glad you let them "just be happy"?

I agree about a balance, and I think the truth is that balance has shifted somewhat, because things are undeniably more competitive. More students than ever are wanting to get on courses, and the academic bar drifts higher.

Some of the "organising a household" or "managing my salary that isn't coming for years" type skills that this bunch may seem to lack are not as imminently necessary as that A* for the course they really want. Believe me, none of us wielded an iron at uni! It isn't needed. And I think to a degree parents are responding to the exigencies of the situation. It is getting competitive.

My parents were completely disinterested in my education or the idea of my getting on. Only "snobby" people did that. I was not allowed to stay on for A levels and I don't think they had any idea of what subjects I did at O level. I was lucky enough to get into the civil service despite that. however this was back in the late 1950s/early 60s and there were not then the resources that are available now.

It is good for parents to support and advise their children in their choices. However I do feel many of the posts on Mumsnet show helecoptering parents who do not allow their children to develop the level of independence and self belief I had at 16. I read about kids in their teens who have never travelled alone on public transport because their parents have ferried them around like parcels. And 18 year old adults going off to uni whose parents pack for them.