Are parents too involved in teenagers' A levels and independence compared to how they used to be?

[Theboredpanda]

…and is this helpful or detrimental to young people? I just saw a thread on here about parents talking about how “they’re” getting through A Levels at the moment. The “they’re” meaning them and their kids. I’d say I had good, supportive parents, but by A Levels and college they had no idea what I was doing day-to-day. They couldn’t tell you what exams I was sitting on what days unless I told them. Although I was still living at home, I was expected to be independent by that age and be doing my own thing with minimal support from my parents. This was in the early 2000s, was this other people’s experience of back then and do you think parents are too involved in their teenagers lives these days and is this stopping them from becoming independent?

It's depressing how some parents seem to want to micromanage their teenagers.
They need support obviously, but not mum [usually] or dad organising their lives and being a personal assistant to them.
So many young people seem to be scared of their own shadow now, with anxiety and lack the basic skills for life because their parents are organising them so much. I feel sorry for this generation in so many ways that some aren't allowed to grow but are smothered in something being dressed up as love. It isn't, it comes across controlling much of the time. If kid is ND then that is different, they need more help.
I've read so many threads on MN over the recent years and think, will mum [usually] ever cut the apron strings? Their d/s is 25 ffs.🙄 No ND mentioned but they are STILL organising their lives because their adult kid can't cope with the basics.

I’m a lecturer and this is something colleagues and I discuss sometimes. I get on well with an older colleague, he’s about 20 years older and so has been in the job much longer and seen various different generations pass through. We both agreed younger Gen X/ older millennial parents are far more anxious than previous generations and just so on top with their kids, even when they come to uni so are technically adults.

Open days are awful, I love meeting the prospective students and this is not all parents at all but some of them are insufferable. They actually visibly mortify their children with the extent of their questions, you can sometimes see the student shuffling on the spot going bright red. They probe us like it’s fucking Mastermind- want to know every intricate detail of every module on offer, exactly how their child will be assessed, will provisions be in place to ensure they settle in, what extra academic and personal support we offer… Just so much. The student just wants to look around the campus and get a feel for it!

I think parents (particularly middle class ones) have projected their anxieties onto their children and in turn formulated the bedroom generation.

I have a friend who took a month's holiday to sit down and do daily revision with her son (who was doing A levels in subjects she knew - one of which was her profession) and has then written every single essay for his degree and wrote his dissertation.

I'm over 60, I think the level of involvement I had with DS when he did his A Levels and GCSEs is similar to what my parents supplied when I did mine. The points of interaction differ because the process is a bit different.

DS is driven and has never needed to be encouraged to do more revision or organise it properly. Schools and colleges gave guidance on this as well. I definitely didn't get much guidance on revision from the school in the 80s, I do remember my parents checking in and asking how it was going etc.

Equipment - the see through water bottle, the correct pens, paying for the tech to compress a video that was part of the EPQ, very similar but no tech or equipment needed for my extended coursework essays.

UCAS etc. - I didn't go to any open days. I had interviews, Dad drove me to one, older brother to the other one. DS went to some open days on his own, 2 were a long way, DH went with him to one of those I went to the other. As with me, it was more of a drop off mode as regards attendance of open day events themselves. Regarding the filling in of the UCAS form - considered something one should do oneself. DS read out personal statement, I think I suggested adding an achievement he'd missed out. I don't remember if there was a personal statement when I did mine. Essentially the same.

COVID generation - mental health issues and pressure/competitiveness in schools. Yes, there's more now. There was some then. Now we seem to need to very directly address our feelings. If you have DC that need help in this area you probably are managing and getting involved. That is different.

This is very much like my own experience in school. I wonder whether the reason we see more involvement is that now we're more aware of ND in young people now, or even similar struggles with non-ND children, we are more involved in supporting them, whether it is just the right amount for them or, in some cases, too much.

I really disagree. I have tried that in many ways and she is a bit better but would you prefer me to just let her fail her gcses? Because that genuinely is what would happen if I didn't provide structure for her. I was a kid who just got in with things, she is not. I actually don't particularly want her to go on to do really academic things afterwards so I'm not going to be pushing uni etc but she really does need a pass in English and maths at the least for most things that she is likely to go on to next. There's so much in the news about numbers of NEET and how hard it is to find jobs. School have really pushed the idea on to them that companies use AI to screen everyone out if they don't have passes in those core subjects. Should I just let her fail them? Resit pass rates are terrible.

Honestly, I am not controlling every aspect of her life (she has friends who weren't allowed out to socialise over easter as the had to revise!) but I do expect her to work hard so that she passes the things she needs to pass. Or at least so she knows she has tried. I don't think I'm putting huge amounts of pressure on her - she certainly hasn't seemed overly stressed at all over the exam period. Children are different. It's not one size fits all and I know her dad, who is very similar, wished his parents had more interest when he was doing gcses.

The paying thing… it starts young! Paying per goal for 7-year-olds on the football team. Made me inwardly seeth. My husband was the coach for my youngest’s team. Trying to get them to pass when they were after the £5 from their parents and the kudos of a goal. My son was goalie 🤣 was never getting a penny though I did discover the other goalie’s dad gave him a fiver every time he could get a goal kick over the halfway line!

Also, my DD is capable and independent and will launch. My DS who has finished uni is making lots of money and is absolutely fine despite ASD. He even has a girlfriend.
The right kind of support makes a huge difference to YPs. Gone are the times they can just coast for years. The CVs and experiences and work experience needs to tick all the boxes for them to even get a foot in the door now.

Unfortunately, DD really struggles with concentration and organisation and although she has been left to try to learn from mistakes in the past, she doesn't seem to change after the mistakes!

Yet the "I don't need to support my child" parents don't seem to understand that not all children are driven like their DC are.

DD's exam independence increased with every year. I reminded her to revise at GCSE, I tested her at A level when she asked. I did nothing for her degree and for post grad exams I had to remind her to take a break!

There is a middle road. Being completely hands off or the opposite extreme of helicoptering are equally unhelpful.

This is exactly the same as us. I didn't mention ADHD in origin post as she has no diagnosis but it would amaze me if that wasn't a factor (for her and her dad). She has learned independence and resilience in lots of ways as things are often not easy for her and she has confidence in many ways that I don't! I just don't see why I would step back and say that failing her gcses is another learning moment when I can help her avoid that.

If true that is so awfully sad. He is being set up to fail.
If he cannot do on his own then he cannot. No shame in that. None. She should be helping him do something he can succeed at in his own right.

I'd guess a lot of those saying "they're" aren't doing much but want to be taking credit for their child's achievements, not seeing that by the time they are an individual rather than an extension of their parents. I wouldn't have even said "we" about my DS going through GCSE's, I reminded him to revise, had a look at what he was doing, was a listening ear and reassured him. That was just standard parenting, he did the hard work and his results are his achievements.

“Open days are awful, I love meeting the prospective students and this is not all parents at all but some of them are insufferable. They actually visibly mortify their children with the extent of their questions, you can sometimes see the student shuffling on the spot going bright red. They probe us like it’s fucking Mastermind- want to know every intricate detail of every module on offer, exactly how their child will be assessed, will provisions be in place to ensure they settle in, what extra academic and personal support we offer… Just so much. The student just wants to look around the campus and get a feel for it!”

@Sartre - but why do you not just park all this information on a website in a Frequently Asked Questions section? I mean it is a big financial decision and people want value for money for their YPs and probably just detailed information so they can compare different universities. It is a market and people are purchasing education now. Anything you purchase for 30k plus you would be asking detailed questions. And unis need to be prepared to compete on different courses and what exactly is on offer.

They learn to concentrate at school. Schools talk them through revision timetables, revision techniques, practising past papers. They’re more expert at that than parents.

I guess there are different ways of modelling/teaching kids. My DSs have always been pretty able to organise themselves, even when younger when they had to get to football training on time with all their kit etc. But it’s been expected of them, rather than done for them. Sure, I’d say, “have you got everything, have you got your travel pass?” etc. But I never did it for them.

They haven’t failed, so it worked for them. They’ve had jobs while at uni and have good jobs now.

But to each their own

Why? I’m not involved. I’m just giving money I can afford.

seems like this a race to the bottom with people competing on how much debt they leave their children in.

My son isn’t aware of the money I’ve left him. He thinks he’s paying. He’ll get the first years money after my funeral. (around Christmas probably ) DH will sort this at my request. He’s had a very tough year with my terminal diagnosis and I want to help him as much as I can. If people want to criticise me that’s their problem.

But you didn't get duff grades so how would you know?

I didn't have a teacher for one year of my A levels because he had a break down. My parents trusted the school to deal with it. They didn't. We all got duff grades in that subject.

One of the teachers got accused of historical child sex abuse and had to go to court. The school wrote a strongly worded letter to the parents fully supporting him and the parents all felt relieved that they were clearly false accusations. All the pupils knew he was guilty because he was totally dodgy with us. We didn't want to worry the adults with it though as they wouldn't like it.

We weren't very resilient either. Drugs, alcohol, self harm, anorexia, sexual assault, SEND, skiving school were all incredibly common but most people turned a blind eye to a lot of it.

My generation are the ones who had to live with very hands off parenting and it wasn't all that great. We are also the generation who have teenage children now.

I think there’s a middle ground of being involved enough and being involved to the point of being overbearing or controlling.

It’s good to support your children and to be interested in their lives. They need to know someone cares about them. Doing thinks like discussing exam and university options is perfectly normal. However, some of threads on here recently show how some parents are far too involved in my opinion. Examples include

writing revision cards for them

making revision timetables for them

comments like “we” have chosen GCSE options. “We” are going to collect “our” grades.

parents complaining to schools of their child isn’t chosen for a sports team

complaining that a child’s school hasn’t taught them enough of the set English lit texts at this point in the school year.

going through coursework and monitoring every single piece of work and the speed it’s completed

getting involved in sorting work experience placements

sorting out DofE for the child and telling them what skills/volunteering etc they should do

Getting too involved (unless there are special educational needs) does not help a child build resilience or the capability of dealing with things when they don’t quite go to plan. It’s no wonder teen mental health problems are such an issue. The pressure they are under from school, made worse by parents getting over involved and giving the impression that getting less than perfect results is a total disaster, is awful for them. Look at the uproar about this week’s difficult maths A Level, from parents as well. The results aren’t even out, they know everyone found it hard, and yet there are students saying it’s the most traumatic thing they’ve ever dealt with and that their university choice and life chances have been taken away. It’s one exam!

The problem nowadays is parents, more likely mothers), often SAHM, who live their lives through the lives of their kids. Their lives are boring so they want to experience excitement and success through their kids.
Their success becomes their own.

I’ve found the opposite. The SAHMs tend, on the whole, to be more laid back. The ones getting more involved and planning every minute of their children’s lives tend be those who work. There are far more mothers who work now than in previous generations and yet parental involvement in the minutiae of their children’s lives is greater than ever.

I voted YABU because it’s possible to strike a healthy balance. Yes, there are parents who are too involved definitely need to back off. On the other hand, your parents sound like they couldn’t give less of a shit and that is just as damaging. I can’t imagine not bothering to ask my kids how their exam went, or if they were managing to revise.

The thi g is with this, presumably kids like this will still have the same failings once they get to university.

So you have just pushed problems down the line. Where they are more expensive.

The ability to organize and focus are in fact part of what makes someone a suitable candidate for university. Not everyone has that to the same degree.

It's too bad people feel embarrassed at not having gone to university. They shouldn't.

Absolutely this.

OP, I agree with you that a minority might be over involved. But I’ve voted YABU because I object to your generalisation.

my own parents didn’t give a stuff about my education. I was disadvantaged as a result. Fortunately, it was in the 80s where there were many opportunities available to me and I did OK.

for this generation, there are few apprenticeships.
Uni comes with heaps of debt so there is more pressure to get on the ‘right’ course with the highest prospects.
NEET statistics are all around us, adding stress.
There’s little to no prospect of job security, affordable housing, a happy and stable future similar to the current generation of early to mid adulthood.

these A levels matter. The days of getting a degree in beckham studies then finding a great job at 21 have gone.

yes, some parents might be over-invested to the detriment of their DC.

But it’s bloody hard to see what limited prospects there are ahead of them and watching them make choices that you can see they’ll regret. Eg little revision, not having a healthy breakfast before exams etc.

Not to do with exams but it is where the problem starts. I was sat in a small playpark with my 4 year old Granddaughter, she was playing and i was sat on bench watching her. She was under a climbing frame "selling" ice cream and chatting away to her "customers". Two of her friends turned up with their mums. Instead of sitting down to chat and allow the children to play together they followed the the children constantly, the children didn't get a chance to talk to each other, use their imagination or even make a choice on what to play on as the mums were at them constantly, Lucy come and climb on here, Katie lets see if you can come down the slide. On and on and on. The poor children must have been thinking Just shut up and leave me alone.
Too many mums feel they have to be on their children 24/7. Children need peace and space to do their own thing. Overbearing mums are the cause of so many young adults struggling to catch a bus.

Not only is this cheating, thss is ine of the reasons why there are so many incompetent professionals. They get in via cheating but don't have all the knowledge so make negligent mistakes. Especially in the healthcare professions, this can have devastating consequences for the patients. I've come across so many 'highly educated' people who can't do their jobs properly.

Absolutely, they are having to navigate a school/exams system that isn’t set up for them at all. I’m not going to sit back and let my DS fail everything to teach him some sort of ‘lesson’ (and basically just make life onwards even harder with less options), he does have the brains and potential there with support. I don’t believe other parents would do it either, people don’t understand unless they have similar children. Hopefully beyond exams he can find something that suits him and how he’s wired.

I have a lot of friends who are teachers (in state and private schools) and plenty who are academics at university. They are all quite heavily involved in their kids educational achievements. Tells you all you need to know really.