To think amount of Roma and Traveller children withdrawn from school underage needs to be cracked down on?

[Jane379]

Two things have made me think about this.

One was the recent thread on Venezuela Fury, Tyson's daughter. Her situation appears slightly different as apparently she did receive tuition online but it made me look into the wider situation.

I know there has been improvement, and that many Roma & travellers families don't do this. But it shouldn't be allowed in the first place. Yes, some who do may homeschool their kids properly, but how many?

There needs to be more regulation of homeschooling.

Why do Roma & traveller kids often slip through the net? Is it sometimes linked to families moving around so children move from one LA to another?

There' nothing wrong with kids preferring to pursue technical options than academic, or living the travelling lifestyle. But school would give them a chance to choose.

The recent case of the 3 traveller boys walking free after rape also made me think about this.

https://spectator.com/article/when-teenage-rapists-walk-free/

The fact they were travellers may be incidental, but I do wonder whether they were in regular school education. If not, perhaps danger signs went unseen that school might have picked up on.

The poor educational attainment of some traveller and Roma children is a real issue, I agree. Though not confined to them.

Because the UK places more importance on people’s ‘culture’ and religion than it does the laws of the UK. In the case of many of these communities with their important beliefs, it’s actually the women and girls that suffer and are treated as second class citizens.

I think it's similar to the Sikh knife thing. I think the law needs to be the same for everyone from now on. We all need to be playing by the same rules.

Any parent in the uk is entitled to home educate by which is meant they either educate their children themselves or organise tutors and similar to do it.

an awful lot of those who home educate are doing so because their children are disabled and have SEN and schools are not capable of meeting those needs.

the number of disabled kids who really need special school but are now starting in mainstream where they have no chance of getting a suitable education - because they are non verbal, because they are blind or deaf or both, etc, is so so much larger than it used to be.

Yes, Sikh men also successfully fought for an exemption for motorbike helmet wearing due to their turbans. Most sensibly choose not to ride motorbikes, but I don't agree with the exemption.

I have a lot of time for many aspects of the Sikh community, but they're not living in the days when Punjabi Sikhs were persecuted and carried swords for protection. We cannot have sword carrying. And we cannot have exemptions from motorbike helmet laws.

by removing children from school the menfolk keep their families in their place. If they are too educated they would risk experiencing life outside their culture and leave It’s a good way to control your children by keeping them uneducated

Two tier education

I wonder what effect traveller culture re women could have affected the assaults? I know not all travellers of course think this way, but there does seem to be a strong culture among some often of non traveller girls being OK for flings, but traveller women must be kept pure for marriage. Also an attitude that non traveller women are sexually immoral.

School might at least help mitigate the attitudes of some

Are you basing your views on experience
Some tv shows?
Or actual studies?
Research eg Gypsies’ and Travellers’ lived experiences, overview, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics share.google/bKTmEELuOwUu8rLai

However, if you're thinking of the Henry Nowak case, it seems the Sikh Kirpan (ceremonial sword) was not what was used to stab Henry Nowak.

It was a much larger and straight-bladed weapon that has nothing to do with the religious aspect, and was already illegal to carry. There is no new rule that could be introduced that would have applied in that case.

It was a larger knife that a minority sect of Sikhs is allowed to wear. (Madness!) He was legally allowed to wear it. The judge made this absolutely clear.

I completely agree with this.

I work as a TA and one issue in my school is the families of particular children not pursuing any assessments, not keeping appointments, etc. I work with a child from a Travelling background and I am fairly sure he is dyslexic but his Mum refuses to have him assessed.

For example, who was the perpetrator here?
Obv all walks of life for male violence tho i have not studied the stats
Hunt family murders - Wikipedia share.google/XTmxZQcluCl4xZXkN

They’re a protected group under the Equality Act which means that the authorities are scared to push and not being policed, they are largely above the law.

I’ve heard school staff tell me of outrageous things (like threats and violence) they have to deal with when it comes to traveller families so I’m not surprised that ordinary workers don’t challenge. It is scandalous though - children have a legal entitlement to education.

But yes i agree a good education helps in many cases.
Missed education is not helpful for many

And some exceptions eg Don’t Judge a Book by its Cover | St John's College, Oxford https://share.google/Pg2wNJrGIUsb3g9BW

Everyone can withdraw their children from school.

Even those that do not move around slip through the cracks. I teach at a primary school that has about 15 settled Irish travellers and I really do worry about all of them, especially the girls. Unfortunately, most of the families (in our school) get very defensive and have sometimes been aggressive when interventions have been put in place/attendance has been queried. School is used as childcare and there is no value seen in education. Schools and the government need to find a way to work with the traveller community because too many young girls are left vulnerable by not being able to read and write- adding young marriage into the mix leaves these girls at risk of domestic and financial abuse. I know this is not the case for all travellers but just what I have seen in my job. I care a lot about the children I teach and want them all to grow up to be happy and safe.

Oh come on, if you really care about traveller children why start a thread which is then full of casual racism. Plenty of children are out of school, plenty of families are also misogynistic, don't value education and all the rest of it. Not all travellers are the same as whatever stereotypes portray and it's definitely no easy thing to go through life being hated and discriminated against from birth really, that has more of an impact on any childhood impact than anything else. I reckon if you want to help them find an organisation supporting traveller communities and offer some time and resource

How do you separate that from the right of any parent to educate their children at home? It would be discriminatory to say that children from these groups must be in school, but every other child is permitted to be educated at home.

Yes but they are required to provide full time education.

You sound like a great teacher. I hope those girls can acquire the skills to have more choice...

Exactly!

No one in authority would ever be brave enough to challenge traveller traditions. They’d be sacked.

I'm sorry. Thank you for the correction.

It seems the Nihangs were a traditional warrior sect to defend Sikhs when the Mughals persecuted them. I can understand wanting to honour their memory but thus must not be allowed. The practice is not prescribed in the holy book the Guru Granth Sahib (nor is the kirpan itself either). It grew up later.

Sorry, let's not derail the thread into a discussion of this, there are already several on it.