To think all knives including religious ones should be banned, after what happened to Henry Nowak

[BritIndianGal]

A more sensible thread this time. I think all carrying of knives should be banned with no religious exemptions allowed , the law should be called the Henry Nowak Bill ....in memory of the young man who lost his life

I agree. I can’t see what possible excuse people have for carrying around a blade. Ban anything over a two inch penknife that is carried habitually

It's already illegal to carry pointed and bladed articles for no good reason, is it not?

The fact that the first response looks for an exception shows why this would never work. There are far too many valid reasons to carry a knife that it would never work.

Chefs, fencers?

Can we also just recognise that a ceremonial blade was not used as a murder weapon... that was a lie used by the murderer.

In Scotland ceremonial blades are also worn and have been in a long time - sgian-dubh.

There's a world of difference between someone carrying a ceremonial blade and someone just having a blade on them. And I say this as someone who's worked with knife crime and with people who regularly carry blades.

The problem with this line of thinking is that there's been a huge knee jerk reaction from the lies told by digwa to avoid accountability being coopted to raise racial tensions. Digwa just had a blade because he wanted to have one and he intended to cause harm. It was nothing whatsoever to do with his religion. So why you'd punish all Sikh people is beyond me.

The knife that Henry Nowak was stabbed with was not the religious Kirpan ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpan ) which the assailant was also wearing elsewhere. It was a much larger and straight-bladed weapon that has nothing to do with the religious aspect, and was already illegal to carry. There is no new rule that could be introduced that would have applied in that case and prevented the tragedy.

No I don't think they should be banned, but we could have stricter rules eg Australia limits the size of a Kirpan to no more than 8.5cm long and it must be worn under clothes.

It would be a form of religious discrimination to ban it, it's one of the 5 very specific obligations of the Sikh faith

All knives? As others have said, chefs? Gardeners? The laws as it currently is states that you need to have a valid reason to have one, I believe, which is sensible. He wasn't legally carrying it - it's a lot bigger than the traditional knife most sikhs use.

Also just to add that a lot of the 'sharps' I've known young people to carry with the intent of causing harm are not always a blade but would include things like screwdrivers or scissors etc. If someone is seeking to cause harm (or protect themselves as I'd say the majority of young people especially who carry a weapon see it as self protection rather than with any intent to seek out violence) they will find a way to do it even without a knife/blade specifically.

So it's a pointless exercise- what we actually need is more investment into the youth sector in a consistent way (chronic short term funding is no good), much better investment into the mental health, charity and social services sectors and better pathways into employment for those at risk from poverty. If you aren't addressing those things the rest is honestly pointless.

ChatGpt said a lot of sikhs agree as well,

We just need the law rolled out

No knives to be carried in public, including chefs and fencers

Yes chefs do need to carry their own knives to shift actually - and gardeners need to carry their tools to work/allotments etc. too.

Chatgpt is not a valid source - perhaps you could ask it what source it used? It hallucinates all the time.

Well at least the ceremonial ones can be made plastic or like a stuffed cuddly toy make like someone said on another thread

None of us are ever going to be able to unsee that video again

Do you have a link from chatgpt to the poll carried out saying Sikhs agree to this? I've not been able to find anything on this to suggest Sikhs have been polled?

Are there Sikhs who want the rules changed?
Also yes.
The case has prompted debate within the Sikh community itself. Some Sikhs have publicly called for restrictions or even a ban on kirpans, arguing that public safety concerns now outweigh the benefits of the exemption. Others oppose any change and view the kirpan as an essential religious liberty.

The link it gave was to an article by Times of India newspaper

It’s completely unreasonable to say all knives should be banned from being carried. There are legitimate reasons. I mean, someone could be taking their knife to be sharpened. Should they get into trouble, or have the blade confiscated?

Sure, but it’d be possible to carry them in a closed container of some sort.

A lot of these religious rules were written centuries ago when the world was like the wild wild west

Please lets change all of it. lets keep only what is kind and inclusive

Knife bans perplex me. What counts as a knife and what is a tool? What counts as carrying?

however a law is written, if it can allow for a religious exemption, then I think it should allow anyone to do the exact same thing whether they practice the religion in mind or not. If you can allow the exemption, then it isn’t truly a matter of safety and it is discrimination to not let other people do the exact same thing.

So how do you propose people who need them for work transport them?

DH uses lots of sharp knives at work. Should he just shut his business down?

I lived in UK from 2007 , never had reason to carry a knife

I lived in India till 2007, never had reason to carry a knife

ppl need to get their knives sharpened?

Gabrielle Carrington illegally used her car as a murder weapon. Therefore should all women be prevented from car ownership and driving? We could call it the Klaudia Zakrzewska bill in memory of the innocent woman that lost her life...

Cars aren't kind and inclusive, so I'm sure woman wont be affected if they can't use them...

Yabu because you are having knee jerk reaction rather than thinking.

There are already strict knife laws. Many people carry knives legally and without issue as they understand the law. And they know the consequences of breaking said law.

Would you ban a skater from carrying ice skates? A very sharp blade, has been used to kill...

Or a Military officer from carrying their sword on parade?

An archer with his arrows?

A glazier with glass, that can be lethal.

What about a pointy stick?

Many Sikhs blunt the blade of the Kirpah except those who are particularly devout.

Are you really advocating for religious censoring? That's a dangerous road to go down. Who are you or anyone else to decide what counts as kind and inclusive and what doesn't on behalf of someone else? You also can't say you want to keep things 'inclusive' while refusing to allow someone to practice core elements of their faith.

How does banning knives prevent others from using knives that are already illegal? No one is murdering anyone with a nail file ffs. They are using machetes and similar which are already "banned".

Ugh.

Have you ever owned a knife? How did you get that knife home from the shop? Did you... carry it?

The problem is people break the law, so even if they made a new law it will get broke just like the others. People are allowed by law to carry or wear a blade for religious reasons they are not allowed by law to use the blade. So those using a religious blade for harm are already breaking the law so I’m not sure they’d listen to a new one even if you did give a name after someone