AIBU to feel deeply unsettled by the Southampton protest scenes?

[HopelessPessimist]

Southampton protest against police, huge crowd, Tommy Robinson whipping everyone into a frenzy and saying "this IS about race"

Other speakers declaring that England is a Christian country. The Lords Prayer chanted by every speaker. The leader of UKIP saying he will deport all migrants and make government Christian. The leaders of the protest saying they are being pushed by the police cordon, while the camera angle shows the police haven't moved. The leaders of the protest mocking the female police officer who are taking over a shift from another police officer in the cordon "They're replacing all the men with women!"

This is awful. It feels like the start of civil war. Maybe human beings just aren't supposed to go decades without a fight.

“part of the reason the police believe their lies is probably because most Sikhs do have such a good standing in society.”
This is terrible. You are suggesting that the police were more likely to believe a Sikh simply because they were a Sikh …
That does sound like two tier policing and racial discrimination against Henry Nowak.

Worried as the parent of a white young adult? Welcome to the world the parents of every non-white young adult have been inhabiting for many years. This is clearly an awful incident, but it remains the case that black people are seven times as likely as white people to die whilst in police custody. The police turn up, don’t listen and sometimes get it wrong.

Using it to whip up more hatred is terrifying. I completely agree.

this is ridiculous. i'm pro palestine and a lot of my friends and family are, and none of us have any issue with jewish people at all!!! in fact, there are multiple jewish people i've met at pro-palestine marches - including incredible holocaust survivor Stephen Kapos. educate yourself and follow some organisations like Jewish Voice for Peace and Rabbis for Ceasefire.

What the fuck has that got to do with anything? You can't just rebrand every single scrap of historical conflict where both sides were Christian as a Christian-on-Chistian genocide.
And I say this as someone who had ancesters murdered in those camps.

They may have done - though I would debate these points - but how is this relevant to the murder of British Henry Nowak, by a British Sikh?

Tell me more about Gladstone. It's been a long time since I studied History at school but I'm pretty sure he was involved in the international intervention of the Armenian genocide, rather than committing a genocide himself..?

Well, you have proven you know nothing if you’re doing a laugh face at the British genocides of Christians within England, France, Germany, Scotland, Ireland and S Africa.

Totally agree.

Only because I don't have time to bring up the stats as going to bed and this isn't a thread about that anyway. And you are coming across as a close-minded person so can't be arsed as you won't change your mind in the face of facts. Goodnight. 😉

Wtf are you on about? What utter nonsense 🙄

He told police he couldn’t breathe 9 times and he’s been stabbed 4 times. He was clearly no threat at all and the handcuffs weren’t necessary

he may have been beyond help but he died with his face in the gravel.

it is fucked up how anyone can defend the actions of the police.

The streets are not about to burn and it is not the start of a "civil war".

There are some thugs in Southampton setting fire to bins and being violent. Maybe that violence will spread but most people aren't behaving that way and won't behave in that way. Just as they didn't in 2024, 2011 etc.
Eta: why are you dragging Muslim people into this? No Muslim person was involved.

Fair enough, I appreciate your response and am glad that I agree with some of what you've written
(disagree on Palestine- Oct 7th was pure animal barbarity- Israel absolutely has a right to obliterate Hamas -a group that explicitly wants to kill every last Jew- every attempt is made by the Israelis to preserve civilian life- notwithstanding that it is a war situation- though that is difficult when Hamas uses its own people as human shields- but that is on Hamas, not Israel)
But, I do appreciate what you're saying re feeling unsettled and I apologise if I was rude to you- it's just that I fully understand why people are so angry-
There may well be eruptions of violence from the disenfranchised members of the working class- it's worrying but feels like a powder keg
I place the blame firmly at Keir Starmer et al's door.

Edited to add- sorry but I also disagree re nationalism being bad- it's only bad if you're English- other countries seem to be allowed it, even Scotland and Wales! I guess you mean far right type of thing but this is another issue- the far right is far less threatening than the far left- the latter have the media and political classes on board. And "Islamophobia" is in no way comparable to the Jew-hate currently in this country. In fact I'm pretty scared of Islam, it doesn't have the best track record. This doesn't mean I hate Muslims- that would be bad, but, yeah pretty scared of Islam.

?

Aye okay, have another glass of wine.

AI is fine for mn, it’s not a study.

Just double checked. Roman Britain also had a 80 span of relative peace. Here:

'The longest sustained period of peace in Roman Britain lasted approximately 80 years, occurring along the northern frontier from the 2nd century to the early 3rf century. Following the severe campaigns of Emperor Septimius Severus in Scotland around 208-211 AD/CE the region experienced pre-modern pre-eminence of sustained quiet, largely solidified by the subsequent implementation of Hadrian's Wall.'

The hundred years between 1815 and 1914 were hardly quiet for the British Empire, with Crimea, Indian Mutiny, troubles in North Africa and of course Boer War.
Doubt our culture and collective psyche is prepared for such long periods of peace without the more aggressive men kicking the shit out of someone or some country?

The concentration camps of the Boer war were intended to isolate a group of people from engaging in guerilla warfare. That disease and death stalked the camps was to some extend the fault of the Afrikaners who refused to use latrines dug by the British, since they were used to going out to the veldt to relieve themselves - a cultural problem the British could do little about. The Afrikaners invented apartheid - not that this is particularly relevent but it does show that those who are oppressed can also be oppressors and that the victim/oppressor narrative of identity politics is bullshit.
Re recent genocides, the victims are mostly Christian and Christianity is the most persecuted religion. The most recent genocides, of course, are that of Oct 7th 2023, carried out by Hamas and Gazan civilians on Jews, and the atrocities being perpetrated in Sudan, which include mass rape.

And there are thousands and thousands of girl children raped and labelled as it being their own fault (they were CHILDREN) whilst the police looked the other way (at best, there are reports they actively enabled the child abuse). And still no inquiry by this Government.

There is a pattern here.

@LuckyHazelFox what is it you find funny about my post?

Two wrongs don't make right!

The police really messed up for sure and should be accountable for missing the stab wounds - but as far as I can tell there's no evidence that they wouldn't have messed up if both victim and perp had been the same race? Would they have believed the guy who called them saying he'd been attacked regardless?

Yes - the killer falsely accused Henry of racism and the police took that MUCH more seriously than the Henry’s repeated statements that he had been stabbed.

Im usually quite pro police but I actually hope all three of these police officers lose their jobs and face possible prosecution..

Surely they can’t continue their jobs as police officers? One has already resigned , maybe to not face justice ?

Sub conscious bias is a thing - so it may apply here, it may be a host of reasons built up in the officers’ heads over time or within that week. As someone said upthread it’s generally medically recognised that if you are talking you can breathe ok - wrong here. Police may have heard 20 plus other people this week saying they can’t breathe whilst being cuffed to try avoid the cuffing etc etc.

This bias also is relevant in the higher number of arrests, and searches, of young black people.

It can’t be used here to prove racism to whites or woke police culture - last thing cops are mainly accused of isn’t it - woke culture - the WhatsApp around Everard eg.

It needs reviewing and it is being, but don’t make false correlations and assumptions first.