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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to feel deeply unsettled by the Southampton protest scenes?

903 replies

HopelessPessimist · Yesterday 19:02

Southampton protest against police, huge crowd, Tommy Robinson whipping everyone into a frenzy and saying "this IS about race"

Other speakers declaring that England is a Christian country. The Lords Prayer chanted by every speaker. The leader of UKIP saying he will deport all migrants and make government Christian. The leaders of the protest saying they are being pushed by the police cordon, while the camera angle shows the police haven't moved. The leaders of the protest mocking the female police officer who are taking over a shift from another police officer in the cordon "They're replacing all the men with women!"

This is awful. It feels like the start of civil war. Maybe human beings just aren't supposed to go decades without a fight.

OP posts:
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Dollymylove · Yesterday 22:56

WondersofJobby · Yesterday 22:54

For all you white children parents worrying about racism, you are being ridiculous. This has happened once. This is not indicative of a whole police force made up mostly of white people being racist. Get a fucking grip. I say this as a very white woman.

A young man is still dead though, isnt he, because the police failed in their duty to look at the situation from both sides 🙄

JHound · Yesterday 22:56

PistolPacker · Yesterday 22:52

He wasn't, he was born here.

Ok that’s what I thought! There are no immigrants involved in this story.

trueredstart · Yesterday 22:57

SpaceRaccoon · Yesterday 22:48

Do you have a list of these numerous genocides?

There were, but they happened in the 12th-14th century. I'm thinking specifically of the crusades against the Cathari. Looking at more modern times, we have the the Troubles in Northern Ireland. I suppose not all denominations hold common ground, but for Catholics and Protestants alike, they have common ground within their branches.

Maray1967 · Yesterday 22:57

SlazengerTennisClub · Yesterday 19:36

The last words that young man heard were his rights being read to him. He asked a police officer for help and was called a liar.
He lay there dying.
That is what is deeply unsettling here. I have sons and my heart breaks for Henry and his family.

Rest in Peace Henry Nowak.

Yes, those are my thoughts. I’m struggling to understand why three of those officers are still working. The poor family.

JHound · Yesterday 22:58

Sunglade · Yesterday 22:46

It's because he died by direct force of the police. This case is similar as the guy died also while being taken into custody, although it was more because he was dismissed and disbelieved rather than directly killed by the officer.

He didn’t die by direct force of police. The two cases have nothing in common except the police were present at both. Not a single black person was involved so dragging in an unrelated story about a black person murdered by a police officer is weird.

You may as well compare this case to the murder of Sarah Everard as a police officer was involved there too.

Hicupping · Yesterday 22:58

SpaceRaccoon · Yesterday 22:48

Do you have a list of these numerous genocides?

Seriously. You could just google it if you really don't know.
Start with this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

Quokkas · Yesterday 22:59

Whysnothingsimple · Yesterday 22:33

So it’s unconscious -they probably believed it.

I don’t get this. They’ve said race wasn’t a factor in their decision. And they cannot lie. So what is your point?

Hangingcrystal · Yesterday 22:59

I honestly think something is so seriously broken in the UK.

A young innocent lad being allowed to die handcuffed as police stand by.

Two male "children" getting off raping two "young women", filming them, but the same age as them.

I'm becoming a bit unshockable but these to cases have shocked me.

EasternStandard · Yesterday 23:00

JHound · Yesterday 22:55

Radicalised by whom?

What do you mean, how would the pp know this. He was referred to Prevent three times. The choir boy narrative was shot to pieces.

SpaceRaccoon · Yesterday 23:00

trueredstart · Yesterday 22:57

There were, but they happened in the 12th-14th century. I'm thinking specifically of the crusades against the Cathari. Looking at more modern times, we have the the Troubles in Northern Ireland. I suppose not all denominations hold common ground, but for Catholics and Protestants alike, they have common ground within their branches.

Yes the Cathari sprung to mind for me too - I was hoping the poster making the claim had something a bit more recent. I looked, in case I was mistaken, but all recent genocides and pogroms tend to feature Christians as the victims.

SpiritAdder · Yesterday 23:01

SpaceRaccoon · Yesterday 22:48

Do you have a list of these numerous genocides?

Not to hand no, but I think you would know of the key ones the British did at the very least? You did finish secondary school?

King Henry II
King Richard I
King Henry VIII
Queen Mary I
Queen Elizabeth I
Oliver Cromwell
Lord Kitchener
PM Gladstone

Kidznurse · Yesterday 23:02

It is the start of a civil war. Decent hard working British people have had enough of multiculturalism being rammed down their throat and expect to work their bollocks off to be taxed to pay benefits to unwanted and non intergrating largely muslim illegal immigrants. There, I’ve said it. Enough is enough and i imagine the streets are about to burn,. Blame starmer and his left wing dictatorship.

SpaceRaccoon · Yesterday 23:03

Hicupping · Yesterday 22:58

Seriously. You could just google it if you really don't know.
Start with this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

Yes I was aware of that but I thought you were actually talking about things that were a bit more current - also you said "numerous".

BeanQuisine · Yesterday 23:03

Menopausalsourpuss · Yesterday 22:44

What a load of ignorant rubbish. Our whole law system (equality), architecture, schools (which were started by the Church are all grounded in Christianity. Islamic societies are totally different from ours as are those based on other religions. You are right that medieval times weren't great though. A total deflection from the subject though.

There are some Christian relics in various aspects of the law etc. - the worst examples have been weeded out, but any "Christian" content that survives consists mostly of generic ideas common to human thought, regardless of religion.

So many of the ugly and evil aspects of medieval and later periods in European history can be traced directly to Biblical teachings that are, thankfully, no longer found in Western laws and customs. I'm sure you'll agree that we should keep it that way.

Quokkas · Yesterday 23:04

PlayingDevilsAdvocateisinteresting · Yesterday 22:37

So, do you actually believe your own hype (I'm being polite here) @Quokkas?

You said
"Lots of march attendees are against antisemitism whilst also supporting Gaza."

Can you please explain to me exactly where/how/why you got your 'belief' that many of the march attendees are against antisemitism, even though they are protesting about the Jewish people, and in doing so they are supporting the atrocious attack by Hamas on the Jewish people on 7th October 2023? That attack has been described by our own - British - Government as "the worst attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust..."
Any person with any sense knows that all of those march attendees hate the Jewish people. Therefore, Quokkas, you are either being very disingenuous by trying to suggest anything else, or you are being incredibly naive?

As for your statement that

" If the marches were really antisemitic, the government would have banned them years ago"

I really don't know whether to laugh hysterically, or to cry incredulously!
I really am still struggling to decide whether you are just incredibly naive, but possibly with a misguided good heart, or whether you have so little regard for your fellow Mumsnetters, that you think you can deceive us with a few ridiculous posts on this thread? If the latter is in fact true, I would have to believe that instead of having a naive but basically good heart, that you actually have a heart not far off from being, well, evil. So I am hoping that you are almost unbelievably naive!

Why are you telling me you’re being polite? What does that have to do with anything?

The marches are protesting against the actions of the Israeli government. They are not supporting Hamas’s attack on Israel.

And you cannot say with any certainty that all the march attendees hate Jewish people. Many of the attendees are, in fact, Jewish.

I’m not naive or evil.

As it happens, I’m also due to visit a synagogue soon and have been considering converting to Judaism for various reasons.

Menopausalsourpuss · Yesterday 23:04

JHound · Yesterday 22:54

There is no evidence for separated parents causing violence. I also don’t think there is any widespread culture of “drill music.”

Or did drill music and separated parent status cause disproportionate murder rates in Glasgow too? Did Digwa stab Nowak because of drill music and single parents existing?

This is just the 2026 version of the 90s argument that video games and horror films cause violence.

You are wrong. I've just asked Ai and they say "Yes, statistical data shows a strong correlation between growing up without an active father figure and higher rates of youth delinquency and incarceration. Authorities, such as the CPS and Police, argue that some drill lyrics detail actual criminal activities or specific, ongoing gang feuds." It is also known that different races/cultures have different rates of absent fathers with black Caribbean overall being particularly high and Chinese/Indian low. Sorry if that's inconvenient for you.

JHound · Yesterday 23:05

Menopausalsourpuss · Yesterday 23:04

You are wrong. I've just asked Ai and they say "Yes, statistical data shows a strong correlation between growing up without an active father figure and higher rates of youth delinquency and incarceration. Authorities, such as the CPS and Police, argue that some drill lyrics detail actual criminal activities or specific, ongoing gang feuds." It is also known that different races/cultures have different rates of absent fathers with black Caribbean overall being particularly high and Chinese/Indian low. Sorry if that's inconvenient for you.

I've just asked Ai

😂

Statistics 101 correlation and causation are two different things.

Menopausalsourpuss · Yesterday 23:05

BeanQuisine · Yesterday 23:03

There are some Christian relics in various aspects of the law etc. - the worst examples have been weeded out, but any "Christian" content that survives consists mostly of generic ideas common to human thought, regardless of religion.

So many of the ugly and evil aspects of medieval and later periods in European history can be traced directly to Biblical teachings that are, thankfully, no longer found in Western laws and customs. I'm sure you'll agree that we should keep it that way.

No not at all, I am hoping for a Christian revival as think we are going to hell in a handcart.

Quokkas · Yesterday 23:06

Kidznurse · Yesterday 23:02

It is the start of a civil war. Decent hard working British people have had enough of multiculturalism being rammed down their throat and expect to work their bollocks off to be taxed to pay benefits to unwanted and non intergrating largely muslim illegal immigrants. There, I’ve said it. Enough is enough and i imagine the streets are about to burn,. Blame starmer and his left wing dictatorship.

No, it’s not a civil war. How is it a civil war? One white man is killed by a Sikh man and it becomes a civil war?

And KS does not have a left wing dictatorship. It’s certainly not left wing and it’s not a dictatorship either.

LuckyHazelFox · Yesterday 23:06

Quokkas · Yesterday 23:04

Why are you telling me you’re being polite? What does that have to do with anything?

The marches are protesting against the actions of the Israeli government. They are not supporting Hamas’s attack on Israel.

And you cannot say with any certainty that all the march attendees hate Jewish people. Many of the attendees are, in fact, Jewish.

I’m not naive or evil.

As it happens, I’m also due to visit a synagogue soon and have been considering converting to Judaism for various reasons.

😆 🤣 😂

SpaceRaccoon · Yesterday 23:06

SpiritAdder · Yesterday 23:01

Not to hand no, but I think you would know of the key ones the British did at the very least? You did finish secondary school?

King Henry II
King Richard I
King Henry VIII
Queen Mary I
Queen Elizabeth I
Oliver Cromwell
Lord Kitchener
PM Gladstone

I don't think you did, if you think any of those carried out "genocides against Christians".

Grammarnut · Yesterday 23:06

Hicupping · Yesterday 22:58

Seriously. You could just google it if you really don't know.
Start with this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

The Cathars, a gnostic sect. Gnosticism holds that there is a non-material self separate from the body and that special spiritual knowledge is available to the spirit and that the material body is less important and even bad (the gospels of e.g. Thomas and Mary Magdalen are gnostic, as is the gospel of John in many ways). Cathars believed that the God of the world is Satan. They also believed in perfection through reincarnation i.e. you got a new body to work through until you were able to return to your angelic state. Catharism, gnosticism and trans ideology (which also believes in a mystic self unconnected with the physical body) have a lot in common.

JHound · Yesterday 23:06

Menopausalsourpuss · Yesterday 23:04

You are wrong. I've just asked Ai and they say "Yes, statistical data shows a strong correlation between growing up without an active father figure and higher rates of youth delinquency and incarceration. Authorities, such as the CPS and Police, argue that some drill lyrics detail actual criminal activities or specific, ongoing gang feuds." It is also known that different races/cultures have different rates of absent fathers with black Caribbean overall being particularly high and Chinese/Indian low. Sorry if that's inconvenient for you.

Also separated parents and absent fathers are two completely different things.

SpiritAdder · Yesterday 23:07

SpaceRaccoon · Yesterday 23:00

Yes the Cathari sprung to mind for me too - I was hoping the poster making the claim had something a bit more recent. I looked, in case I was mistaken, but all recent genocides and pogroms tend to feature Christians as the victims.

But not the invention of concentration camps for the Afrikaners?

Quokkas · Yesterday 23:07

LuckyHazelFox · Yesterday 23:06

😆 🤣 😂

What are you trying to say?