Fucking Shoebox and other such things

[courageiscontagious]

The Shoe Box Problem

A message came through on the class WhatsApp and in a teacher email: kids need a shoe box in two weeks. My husband is in the group. He has the luxury of ignoring it because he knows, on some level, that it will be handled. By me.

I found the box, stored it, labelled it, noticed it hadn’t left the next morning, moved it to the door.

And this is every single thing: uniforms, clothes that still fit, water bottles, teacher emails, absence logs, playdates, the family calendar, birthday presents for friends. I notice, I track, I action. He does not.

If I ask him to do something, he agrees and then doesn’t. So now I don’t ask — I just do it, because the follow-up costs more than doing it myself.

What kills me isn’t just the imbalance. It’s that there is zero acknowledgement that this is work. That I am doing it and he is not. That he is constantly benefiting from my unpaid labour without a word of recognition.

I also work more paid hours than him. I earn slightly more. My “office” is a corner of the kids’ TV room. His is a dedicated room with a door that closes. Kids come home from school or whatever, he works on uninterrupted while I fend off requests for snacks, help, attention while trying to work.

I am not a stay at home wife who signed up for this division. I am a full financial contributor running a second unpaid job he doesn’t even see.

Hes been a parent for almost a decade and never booked a minute of childcare. He can happily plan his work life as normal regardless of whether it is term time or not. Meanwhile I am currently planning childcare over the break with notes and red string like I’m solving cold case.

He’s fucking oblivious and any attempt to discuss it becomes a fight.

Has anyone actually changed this dynamic? I’m genuinely asking.

when I raise that I want help, he immediately gets defensive and starts saying a lot of what I do is unnecessary, like I am only stressed because I make work for myself.

Agree with him - then don't do the work you're making for yourself, like his laundry, his bills, his childcare, his shopping or cooking his food then.....!

firslty you’re not asking for help. You’re asking for him to do his fair share. “Help” implies it’s solely your responsibility and he is doing you a favour.
secondly what does he think is unnecessary? And what would happen if you stopped doing these things?
thirdly I’d be inclined to stop any housework that is only related to him e.g. stop doing his laundry if you do it for him. Stop buying his toiletries. Etc

Also this reminds me of this thread - https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5470491-would-you-separate-in-these-circumstances

It’s a good idea but he would happily sign up for the afterschool slot, safe in the knowledge that the children will bother me with everything while he returns to his desk in peace.

while I would ask about their day, give them fruit and a drink, do their physical therapy (we have a child with a disability) encourage them to play or read - he will leave them to watch YouTube nonsense unsupervised. If I suggested he offer them a snack or do the therapy homework he would act very mistreated as accuse me of nagging

Don't think about relationship counselling as a way to sort out these individual issues, but as a way to learn how to have better conversations about them. As you say, it becomes a fight, and that's not OK. You could benefit from being able to have ongoing, fluid conversations about what needs to be done and how you feel and making it fair without everyone feeling bad afterwards. Sometimes lists and plans don't account foe sudden changes and then you get 'but that's not what we agreed'. For instance, if you get ill you will need him to take on the majority at home unprompted rather than setting your recovery back by directing and managing him.

Actually, making a shared list at dinner time could be a really good tactic! Model self organisation for the DC!

Right, let’s make out list for tomorrow: anyone have PE? What about a cake sale? Packed lunches? The dentist cancelled us last week so I’ll rebook that. DH, are you going to book and pay for the next block of scouts? What else, is there anything I’ve forgotten? (Ben pipes up: my shoes hurt, can I have new ones?)

I know you’re still doing the mental work of organising him, but it’s also demonstrating what needs doing and teaching everyone to do their bit.

On that other thread I linked, the OP started to use an app which had shocked the DH into realising how unfair the split was. I'm not sure OP's DH here will have the same attitude but might be worth a try?

I was thinking this today - what app is it? I want an upp to have a checklist and prompt him to do things so I don’t have to micromanage him

Make him read this OP
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0GNRDPQKZ

I really feel for you. You're so unappreciated. I hope you get him to listen and realise what you're contributing and he isn't.

@PinkertonRab can you help out with the app you used?

Yes, completely agree with this. As humans we act according to our basic beliefs. If he believed that it was only fair and right that domestic chores were split 50:50 he would be much more likely to do them without a fuss. Somewhere along the line he’s got into the thinking that he shouldn’t be doing it. If you can get to the heart of that wrong thinking you stand a chance of exposing his wrong beliefs and him changing his behaviour. If he only ends up doing it because he’s afraid you will leave, it won’t be sustained. You need to address the thought patterns that have got him there, for which you might need a counsellor.

My “office” is a corner of the kids’ TV room. His is a dedicated room with a door that closes. Kids come home from school or whatever, he works on uninterrupted while I fend off requests for snacks, help, attention while trying to work.

Why?

For fucks sake, why are you allowing this? Time to tell him you are swapping office locations.

I actually voted YABU as you are the one who can change this, you are the only one that make a difference.

Stop fucking maid-ing this man.

So when you have that discussion, you need to list what it involves. You also need to tell the children ‘After school any issues must be taken to Daddy’ and when they come to you, remind them that Daddy is in charge and carry on with what you’re doing. It will be hard at first but they will get the hang really quickly.

As I said before though, if he’s going to make a meal of it by grumbling and being off with the children you need to address the underlying issue of his attitude and what is fair. Unless you get agreement on that, the behaviour stuff isn’t likely to make enough difference because he will make it such hard work by ‘punishing’ you with his attitude. Honestly it sounds like he really needs a sharp dose of reality the selfish so and so.

no!

FFS - "Right we are swapping offices now, you have 3 weeks to clear your crap out or I'm getting a skip. Anything you want to keep, you'll need to move out"

Why do your kids need a TV room? Surely you take that room and it solves the office problem?

By that I mean it’s the living room and the kids gravitate there.

Could you work elsewhere? As in, actually go to your office, or a shared workspace? Or even the library? Just not be available when the kids come home from school, so he has to deal with snacks/homework, etc?

I have the office in our house. DH has the dining room
He seems happy and tends to wander in and out of the kitchen/wander off to chat to the kids, whereas I like to be very focussed when I work.

If he said he wanted to use the office too I would happily share it with him

I am not selfish. Just assuming someone will say if they aren't happy with the arrangements

I think this is very telling. He is lazy and moody, and he is well aware of how much you are doing yet is doing nothing to ease the load for you.

You have enabled him by letting this continue for ten years, I do understand that it feels easier if you just do it but that is what he is relying on. He knows you’ll do it.

I couldn’t live like this, it’s death by a thousand cuts and the resentment will kill your marriage either way. I don’t think talking to him or counselling will help. He already knows, and has no desire to change. You might get a couple of weeks of him pulling his weight but it’ll just go back to how it is now.

Life is too short for this shit. Think about what this relationship is modelling for your children. I would be making plans to leave.

The problem is (most) men don’t care about the stuff that makes out children’s lives better. I mean would he give one jot about the shoe box? Does it affect him if a DC doesn’t have the right kit or has no lunch? Would he really care if a DC missed a party let alone buy a gift for the birthday child?

I would say NO is the answer in most cases. If it doesn’t affect them, then they are really not bothered IME. They also don’t feel any guilt about it.

That’s the difference, we DO care about these things as we want the best for our kids and for them to be happy. Men - not so much.

I have done everything for my DD, however DH was happy to let me work part time and he is the higher earner, so this is the trade off.

In your shoes I would feel the same as you. I don’t know what the answer is as you can’t make him feel responsible if he just doesn’t 🤷‍♀️ I guess you need to spell out to him exactly what you have said here and hope for the best or separate and you will feel less resentful.

Start sending him Alex Trippier videos. But if he won't change, I would leave. It's not like he's making your life any easier.

Do you have a relationship where you can raise something like this without it being a huge deal?

I suppose I am asking myself why I don’t feel comfortable just asking for what I want.

I think because in the past, my needs have been met with defensiveness, belittling and dismissive behaviour- in which he would rather be right in his own mind than listen to me or make me happy.

Also intrigued by this notion of a kids' TV room!

Anyway, this checklist of domestic labour tasks might be a good starting point, OP, for showing him that the division really is unfair and it's not just all in your head

https://vardgivare.skane.se/siteassets/3.-kompetens-och-utveckling/projekt-och-utveckling/jamstallt-foraldraskap/material-foraldrar---fillistning/checklist-for-gender-equality-in-your-everyday-life.pdf

Honestly, these are not the actions of a loving partner or decent father. This isn't just about a shoe box, it's about his willingness to live a better quality life at the expense of you having a worse quality life.

I think counselling is a good suggestion if he can't have an adult conversation about the glaring inequity without a third party.

But honestly, it sounds like he's already checked out of your family. Would your life be worse without him there?