Fucking Shoebox and other such things

[courageiscontagious]

The Shoe Box Problem

A message came through on the class WhatsApp and in a teacher email: kids need a shoe box in two weeks. My husband is in the group. He has the luxury of ignoring it because he knows, on some level, that it will be handled. By me.

I found the box, stored it, labelled it, noticed it hadn’t left the next morning, moved it to the door.

And this is every single thing: uniforms, clothes that still fit, water bottles, teacher emails, absence logs, playdates, the family calendar, birthday presents for friends. I notice, I track, I action. He does not.

If I ask him to do something, he agrees and then doesn’t. So now I don’t ask — I just do it, because the follow-up costs more than doing it myself.

What kills me isn’t just the imbalance. It’s that there is zero acknowledgement that this is work. That I am doing it and he is not. That he is constantly benefiting from my unpaid labour without a word of recognition.

I also work more paid hours than him. I earn slightly more. My “office” is a corner of the kids’ TV room. His is a dedicated room with a door that closes. Kids come home from school or whatever, he works on uninterrupted while I fend off requests for snacks, help, attention while trying to work.

I am not a stay at home wife who signed up for this division. I am a full financial contributor running a second unpaid job he doesn’t even see.

Hes been a parent for almost a decade and never booked a minute of childcare. He can happily plan his work life as normal regardless of whether it is term time or not. Meanwhile I am currently planning childcare over the break with notes and red string like I’m solving cold case.

He’s fucking oblivious and any attempt to discuss it becomes a fight.

Has anyone actually changed this dynamic? I’m genuinely asking.

Yeah I suppose it’s this. Mind reading on my part but it makes me feel like he thinks my time is at once infinite and without value, that my work is less important and that the things I am tending to are without value.

Came about because we moved while I was on mat leave with newborn - he nabbed the office as the one who was working. I returned to work 6 months later with a desk shoved to the side of the kids TV room.

Move all the office shit into the loft and share the workspace, if big enough or alternate days if not.

As you work more, he can pick up the kids WhatsApp group for this term, you can do it next term etc

But he is a selfish arse.

Why don’t you go for a morning, after school split?

Tell him you’re struggling to keep up the pace at work, while also doing all the DC wrangling, so you need a system to make sure you get some uninterrupted work time.
Ask if he wants to do before school or after school.
Then discuss that before school needs you to be aware of…. List.
After school needs you to be aware of…. List.

I really feel for you. This is exactly where I was two years ago. I am asap much happier now. I went through the motions with relate but I knew in my heart I was done. He never acknowledged the career and other sacrifices I had made and I was just constantly furious . I think you’re probably not ready to make the leap yet from what you’ve said but a serious chat is needed. If it escalates to him being aggressive then you know you’re fighting a losing battle. The shoebox example plus a few others. Outline it to him , plus the office situation.
I disagree with other posters saying let him fail if it affects the kids though. I would never have done this. You will inevitably end up keeping track of stuff. But things that only affect him… go for it. I stopped doing my ex’s laundry at one point and it was petty but enjoyable 😂

Could you turn the kids TV room into a joint office and use the office for the kids TV? You can then take turns dealing with after school interruptions.

Do you children need a TV room, do you have another living room with a TV?

Cam you sit down with him, tell him how you feel and agree on a division of tasks? Give him some things which are his to arrange and then just forget about them as not your problem.

DH is in charge of uniform, he buys it all, donates it once outgrown, is in charge of making sure it's washed. He also takes charge of school holidays and booking holiday clubs. In June he usually sends me a spreadsheet and we agree which days I'll take off, which he takes off, which his mum can cover and which days we'll use holiday clubs. He is in charge of DS's clubs.

I sort DD's clubs, sort out payment for trips and lunches, make packed lunches, deal with all school coms, any birthday party invite admin.

There's loads more stuff but you get the idea. We each have our own tasks.

The room admin here could be a good test case actually. “The office situation isn’t working for me for XYZ reasons and it is unfair that you have a dedicated workspace and I don’t”. Then ask him what he thinks the options are.

This is me, I've got the DC to 13 & 15 now though so I feel like I've almost 'completed it' - bloody annoying though.

Funny you say this because I sort of did this without his knowledge.

anything he can wiggle out of he will. But the children need to be dressed, lunches packed and taken to school in the morning. thsi just has to happen so I stopped doing it and then he had to do it.

we had agreed he would do the kitchen and dishes and I would do basically everything else. I would get up to make lunches and the lunch boxes and bottles would be wet or just dirty and I’d end up cleaning. So I stopped cleaning them, I just wouldn’t make the lunches and so he had to.

so now he huffs and puff every morning and is short and grouchy with the children as he feels this is very unfair

but I do EVERYTHING else. I think it’s fine to leave mornings to him (noting I am caring for and dressing the toddler while he gets the school children sorted, not eating bon bons)

It sounds perfectly normal to be honest. Doesn't make it ok in any shape or form, but the vast majority of marriages are like this (before the "well my husband is perfect" brigade pipes up, please use your READING COMPREHENSION on the word majority which means there are of course men who are different but this is still more common than not).

I think it comes down to the fact lots of little boys grow up having all their needs and executive function deficits met by their mum so they don't even have the awareness that you need a level of "mental load" to make life go on. Girls see their mum lining up the shoes by the door, picking away glasses, changing the towels and realise all those tiny, boring tasks still need to be done by someone. Boys learn that if they leave their socks on the floor or a glass on the table, it will magically disappear anyway.

The problem is whether divorce will actually teach him a lesson or just make life harder for everyone. Having reached the age where some friends we know are getting divorced, many men are utterly clueless why their wives were so unhappy and basically don't give a shit even after the split. They're almost pleased to have their own life back without the constant chaos of kids. They have no idea what the mental was load beforehand, so they simply cannot comprehend what they did wrong because they have no concept of it. And after a divorce, their mental load disappears anyway so they're quite happy about it.

Even 50-50 custody doesn't force them to take on more. From observation, the mother's load gets higher because you have to ensure the children have all the things they need to spend time at the fathers house, including important school stuff, logistics, medication etc. A single forgotten item becomes even more compounded with guilt and resentment than pre-divorce. Eg forgetting a t-shirt for PE is not a big deal But if the other parent forgot the t-shirt and the child is forced to wear a smelly shirt from the lost & found whilst being fully aware this is a direct result of their broken family, then it becomes a much bigger deal.

I'm sure your friend had a peaceful home when you visited her but I don't think her life is perfectly smooth and less stressful all the time.

Don't underestimate the grovelling either during times when you are sick or physically unable to take care of the children. Even in a rough marriage, if one partner is sick the other will feel obliged to step up and keep an eye on the kids so the spouse can rest. The worst experience for many divorced mums is asking their ex partner for "permission" to get some rest or attend a vital event. The partner (and possibly his new GF) will hold their power over your head making you feel like the smallest or most CF person ever and feel indebted to them even though you always did most of the work.

My DM has a phrase that ‘marriage is like a rug, it needs a good shaking out once in a while’. I think it’s time.

You warn him that things have gone to defcon 5 and that you both need a big sit down chat and how you’re not happy. Really spell it out to him that you are contemplating your future and rock his little world a bit. Find a good time and space without kids around to do this.

Then spell everything out, as calmly as possible but letting him know, in no uncertain terms, how angry and upset you are. Ask him what he’s going to do about it. Ask him why he thinks this is fair. Don’t get defensive or allow yourself to be minimised. Your feelings are real whether he likes it or not. If he wants a happy marriage he needs to respond.

It is bliss. It really, really is. The rage and the resentment tend to disappear.

If you want to work on your marriage then do couples counselling, especially around communication. If he doesn't then perhaps do solo counselling so you can figure out what you want but ultimately, if he doesn't step up of his own free will (without you having to ask all the time), your marriage is over. Do you think he's capable of stepping up?

Yes I have managed to address the imbalance by being absolutely fucking ruthless with my DH, earning my own money and making it clear to him that if he is the type to show the sort of practised incompetence I see on here I will be out of the door in seconds. And he knows I mean it, because I own more assets than him, earn more money than him and frankly I am probably a better catch!

You have got to do something about this asap- because otherwise the resentment will eat you up and make you ill.

This weekend, TELL him that you require use of the office. If it’s big enough you can put 2 desks in, if not you alternate who uses it. If this means that he has to clear Lego and gaming shite out, so be it. TELL him either he does it himself before next Monday or you’ll be giving the Lego to the kids, who should have it anyway, and then shoving the gaming stuff in some boxes and it goes in the loft. The office thing is a symbol- it represents how little your role in the house means to him and how he thinks he’s still big-billy-bollocks even though he earns less than you. If he doesn’t like it he can pay for and install a separate office in the garden.

The admin stuff, sit down together with a list of what needs doing and split it. Then he HAS to do his bits. Personally I give my partner the regular stuff which he find it easier to sort out, like swimming lessons, football, music. I do the ad hoc stuff like school trips, stuff to take in to school, dinners, medical stuff etc. But the key thing is that for “his” jobs you must not interfere unless either he asks you for some reasonable help or the whole thing has gone to shit and it’s an absolute disaster.

And, as above, you have got to be prepared to walk out on him if things don’t improve. I would also recommend counselling but a bit of going absolutely mental doesn’t hurt occasionally either.

the huffing and puffing here is key… have you had a conversation with him about why he thinks this is unfair? Does he believe he does more than he actually does or does he intrinsically believe that all house and child stuff is your responsibility and he is “helping” and therefore deserves a medal?

Honestly I’d rather stick my child in front of YouTube while I’m sick or ask friends for help than live another second in the same house as my ex

Also, this won’t solve anything but on your non-home-office days, can you go into a physical office or work from home hub? I find a couple of days out of the house every week absolutely invaluable. Plus he’ll have to deal with everything at home without being able to palm stuff off on you. Tell him work has changed their policy if you need to, or just be honest and say that your work is suffering because you’re distracted/ doing too much at home and you wouldn’t want to lose the family main source of income (I.e YOURS!).

OMG yes. The thought of it makes my skin crawl.

so now he huffs and puff every morning and is short and grouchy with the children as he feels this is very unfair

I think that's the key thing. Yes the other halves can often be genuinely clueless about what's involved in everyday life with kids (the party invitations that mean logistics, present, usually a whatsapp group, the costumes, homework, swimming kit, the snacks, lunchbox ingredients that don't magically appear, the school shoes that fit, the trainers that fit, the gym kit that fits, the violin lessons and ensuing books that need buying, the football kit, the after-school clubs, the swimming lessons bills, when it's on and when it isn't, scouts, bus tickets, sun hats, sun cream that's in date, sandals and shorts for summer weather, doctor's appointments, who's having school dinners on which days, babysitting etc etc - and all of that before 'grown-up' admin).

But when it's pointed out, do they see it as 'this is a job that needs doing, so let's divide it between the parents' or do they see it as 'I don't want to do that, so let's say it's your job'?

This is why I said sometimes I list out everything I'm thinking about for the next day. It spells out that this stuff doesn't just happen.

I hate making lunchboxes so DH does it then clears up the kitchen.

Even in a rough marriage, if one partner is sick the other will feel obliged to step up and keep an eye on the kids so the spouse can rest.

That was not my experience. He even refused to come home half hour early one time even though I had passed out for several minutes while caring for a 3 Yr old.

Hes been a parent for almost a decade and never booked a minute of childcare. He can happily plan his work life as normal regardless of whether it is term time or not. Meanwhile I am currently planning childcare over the break with notes and red string like I’m solving cold case.

OP I completely missed this in your OP.
When you say 'booked childcare' do you mean he hasn't taken any time off to look after his own kids?
Or do you mean booking after-school clubs, holiday clubs etc?

Because if it's the first one I don't know how on earth you're still with him! Do your kids go to clubs when you're out of annual leave?

Or worse, do they see it as , this is your job because you’re a woman but if I graciously do it to help you I deserve praise and a medal and a “such a good dad” badge.

That’s food for thought. I have no idea how he views and considers these things.

honestly, I think I would feel at least 50% better about it if he even acknowledged that these are tasks and I do them.

when I raise that I want help, he immediately gets defensive and starts saying a lot of what I do is unnecessary, like I am only stressed because I make work for myself.

But that’s not allowing you to work unimpeded. Can you work non standard hours? Start at 7.30am and leave the children- all of them- to him?

When he huffs and puffs, offer to swap. “Ok DH, I see you find it a struggle. How about I take over mornings, and you do the after school slot?”