Fucking Shoebox and other such things

[courageiscontagious]

The Shoe Box Problem

A message came through on the class WhatsApp and in a teacher email: kids need a shoe box in two weeks. My husband is in the group. He has the luxury of ignoring it because he knows, on some level, that it will be handled. By me.

I found the box, stored it, labelled it, noticed it hadn’t left the next morning, moved it to the door.

And this is every single thing: uniforms, clothes that still fit, water bottles, teacher emails, absence logs, playdates, the family calendar, birthday presents for friends. I notice, I track, I action. He does not.

If I ask him to do something, he agrees and then doesn’t. So now I don’t ask — I just do it, because the follow-up costs more than doing it myself.

What kills me isn’t just the imbalance. It’s that there is zero acknowledgement that this is work. That I am doing it and he is not. That he is constantly benefiting from my unpaid labour without a word of recognition.

I also work more paid hours than him. I earn slightly more. My “office” is a corner of the kids’ TV room. His is a dedicated room with a door that closes. Kids come home from school or whatever, he works on uninterrupted while I fend off requests for snacks, help, attention while trying to work.

I am not a stay at home wife who signed up for this division. I am a full financial contributor running a second unpaid job he doesn’t even see.

Hes been a parent for almost a decade and never booked a minute of childcare. He can happily plan his work life as normal regardless of whether it is term time or not. Meanwhile I am currently planning childcare over the break with notes and red string like I’m solving cold case.

He’s fucking oblivious and any attempt to discuss it becomes a fight.

Has anyone actually changed this dynamic? I’m genuinely asking.

The issue isn't the shoe box, or the fact that you do basically everything and he's a lazy arse, it's the fact that if you try to speak to him, he dismisses you and puts you down. A relationship cannot work if one or both people are more interested in defending themselves than listening to what their partner has to say.

You could fix this, but it would be a lot of work. Do you want to fix it?

@courageiscontagious I think you should organise a midweek break with a friend during term time. Dh has to get time off too. Give him a wake up call.

Please stop being so passive. You sound scared of him. He's taking the piss.

I used a housework app to challenge DP. He added things to the list like keeping his shed tidy, buying his own lunch groceries in so that he could tick tasks off, but ignored all the core tasks like cleaning the kitchen etc. I gave up.

Him huffying over getting your DC ready in the morning shows you a lot Op, he thinks they're your job and resents having to muck in so he'll never see your point of view unless you make him. Tell him you're going to marriage councilling or the divorce courts, his choice. If he refuses then you know he'd rather lose you then get off his arse and help.
It's so sad that he'd rather let you be a second class citizen in your home than make an effort

I don't know if your husband will buy in or not. He should, it's not fair as is.

However, I have found to three things to be true about division of labour that might be helpful.

One is that tasks need to be divided so everyone knows what they are responsible for. So for example, while I get emails for my daughter's two activities, I only manage one set. He manages the other. I don't worry about it unless he says we need to coordinate to get things done. So we each know what we need to pay attention to.

If you can play to your relative strengths in dividing this stuff.

And the third is you have to give some space to let him manage his stuff the way hf wants. If he is forgetful at first don't just do it, remind him something needs to be done but don't just tell him what to do. He needs to build a new routine which is not easy for some people. He may still not do things the way you want, that is ok.

British men are really weird about unpaid domestic work/mental load.

There is no way on this earth they will do an unpaid chore whilst there is an adult female living in the house. They would literally rather loose their home, half their assets, half their pension, 80% of their kids time. I can't understand it.😪

Swap offices, today.

Yeah exactly this I could never be arsed with an app or anything as I knew it would just be me who ended up maintaining it. Same for reading Fair Play book and all that. He read it but still wouldn’t acknowledge that the set up was unequal.

I wrote a relatively long reply full of clever suggestions to force him to pick up his fair share but deleted it and wrote this instead. Fundamentally, if you can’t talk to him and come to a mutually satisfactory solution using some of the good suggestions in this thread, then it is doomed isn’t it? I’d have the convo that you are at breaking point, try to discuss it, and if he gets defensive as usual just tell him he can do what he likes with the information but if you see no change in the next month, you are giving up and divorcing him.

Derailing thread slightly but thanks for posting this. We don't have dependent children but I read the other sections and I literally do ALL of those things. A conversation is in the offing...

Sweet heavens above 😫 You couldn't make it up! At least, you could, but only if you were a 1980s-90s sitcom writer who had just got a job with Men Behaving Badly

Plus youd get proper child free time when the children are staying at their dads!😂

Welcome to the club. Mine is the same but he’s not on the school app because he’s forgetful and unorganised but manages the work as an assistant manager, he does lots of other things, that’s why he’s still alive, he deep cleans the weekend, will tidy most week nights, drives the kids everywhere to activities and parties, cinema trips ( I hate doing the social stuff so it balances out.
If he was in charge of the school stuff the children would suffer.

Can you leave the WhatsApp group and tell him that’s his job from now on?

You can’t keep track of it if he’s the only one getting the messages. The downside is the kids might miss out if he doesn’t pay enough attention, but given it’s pretty low level stuff that might be an acceptable consequence.

Does he do anything around the house at all, like cook dinner or put the kids to bed? Do the shopping? Sort out bills and insurance etc etc?

I think this is partly it.
If DC didnt have a costume for book day/a pringle tube for craft/ a specific colour top for sports day, i know DH would shrug "meh, its not a big deal, im sure they were fine" and not give it a second thought.
Our kids are late teens, I feel like i take 95% mental load and have done 95% parenting. He (im sure) would disagree. But even now - on a regular basis - he'll choose to make something for dinner...and half way through say, "I dont know what DS will have"...because he hasn't thought whether DS will like it

I don’t know if it was how some men where raised or it’s a hormone or from the stone ages that they don’t sweat the smaller stuff or consider others needs before they’re own, it’s annoying.
I poke DH and point it out as it happens, it boils my blood as the DC are always my priority.

I do the mental load. At one point I thought we should split it and take one child each, but I couldn't decide which child I was willing to sacrifice to this experiment.

For us, it is balanced out by housework. DH does more of that.

I think you need to start your own thread about your experience which leads you to have this very dark view

I ended my marriage because of just this. I was doing absolutely everything - I still do everything the biggest difference is that I don’t have another child who has no concept of fairness, mental load or parenting to deal with. As far as 50/50 is concerned it highly unlikely. If he won’t step up when he lives with the children … I’m sure he won’t when he has to do it all alone.

Why are you waiting for this man to be nice? Life suits him as it is so you will have to push the change.

"Dh we need to talk about the office. I suggest we switch places for the length of time you've had the office and then every 2 months after that. What do you mean a corner of the living room won't work for you? If it works for me it works for you - I'll move my stuff in at the weekend. I can box yours or you can move it yourself" Yeah it will be a fight and a hassle but better that than seething.

"darling go up and ask your dad about the snack you want. I know he is working but I am working too. No, go up again and knock louder this time" The thing is it is easier to get the snack yourself - but not in the long run. Train your children to ask their dad for stuff. It may take a while but you can do it.

Come on OP. he's a lazy shit but you presumably like something about him so don't put up with this. people take you are your own valuation.

Why not give him specific things he's responsible for doing like cook family meal 3 times a week on specific days, hoovering and anything else you think he could do. Keep a shared diary on your phones that gives alerts for all these things so they can't be forgotten.

Totally agree with this, I split up with my children’s dad when they were 2 and 3. People used to say don’t you find it hard, and I was like no it’s so much easier. He still only sees the kids at my house as he is so useless he just isn’t capable of looking after them on his own, but now I can tell hi to leave, close that door and there is peace.

Presumably though this man has a grown up job and can manage his work tasks without being babied like this? Honestly, the bar is in hell here. And I bet you a pound if he was tasked with cooking three meals a week he wouldn’t engage in shipping planning or clearing up .
I think I am going to be single forever

Exactly!!

All of the suggestions about adding things to an app, writing a list for him, telling him what to do make me despair.

My ex managed perfectly well at work without having his hand held, or being told what to do, or being given a step-by-step guide of exactly how to do it! I am far, FAR happier single.