To think parents are not teaching any independence?

[MrBlobbysNuts]

A local parent group is in uproar because their precious secondary school children are apparently "too vulnerable" to get the bus before and after school without a phone (phones have been banned from premises entirely)

How is getting a bus for 15 minutes without a phone unsafe? Back in the day we just had ourselves and we survived. Give the kids cash and teach them to stop relying on phones to get around. The world is no more dangerous than it was 40 years ago, if anything it’s much safer!

suggestionswelcomed

He’s 11 and had a note given in earlier in the year to say he could wait across the road in the playground. I think he assumed everyone would go over as it was sunny but everyone just left.

The world isn't more dangerous, though. Or, at least, the UK isn't. Crime is way down. Traffic accidents are down. Child deaths and serious injuries are down. Out and about in the UK is far safer now than it was 40 years ago.

Not that I think kids shouldn't be able to have a phone to use once they are out of school, but cultivated anxiety about how dangerous being out in public is is part of what's hurting kids mental health.

I do wonder if one of the reasons things are safer (particularly in the case of accidents) is because kids aren’t allowed to roam with no checks anymore.

Agree! I think it makes you a brilliant parent tbh as you didn't make her go.

I've related this before on here. I think it was on one of my own threads about the kindness of strangers.

My oldest son was around 3 and he got up one day and decided he was going to get himself "ready".

So he did. He put all his own clothes on, which included a Micky Mouse gagool and wellies. 😂

We set out for the village shop. Him all chuffed. We met a dog walker and my son shouted at him "Mr, I got myself ready today!"

The man stopped, said "You are kidding wee man, that's brilliant" gave him 10p, and shook his wee hand.

I am basically tryimg to say that no child should be unable to put on a coat!

What is a gagool?

I was responding to the claim that the world was more dangerous. It isn't.

Crime is down. Traffic accidents are down.

It isn't just that kids are no longer in the public sphere. Keeping kids in doors does lower those statistics but the world is still safer for them.

There are fewer criminals who do less violent crime and better traffic management and vehicle safety features than 40 years ago.

Of course if you bubble wrap something it is less likely to get damaged. But in the case of kids being kept at home they lose vital experience that benefits them in many ways and is important for development into competent and confident adults. Keeping them "safe" by bubble wrapping them is counter productive for a long healthy life and increases risks for them when they are older.

Are all these schools banning phones also going to stop putting homework on apps?

20 years ago we carried cash and had physical bus passes, technology means we pay with our phones now

I still carry cash and a bank card and have a physical bus pass, and buy an actual train ticket.

I actually find it a right royal pain when I'm boarding a bus, or waiting to enter or leave a station and the people in front of me are taking forever faffing with their phones at the barriers.

There is much more online crime

Many people have video doorbells and dashcams - Much more difficult to argue traffic accidents when it’s all on camera, same with house

On the flip side it’s harder to address any antisocial behaviour with kids out because they shout paedo and get aggressive as they know there is effectively fuck all anyone can do

And is crime down? Or is it just written off?

If you have parents turning up at university and job interviews that does indicate a slip in young adult independence.

Sone parents will still be going into a GP appointment with their 18 year old. They will. Like they can’t trust their legal adult child or the GP to have an appointment without them. It does border on obsessive.

There is much more online crime

Children with phones with unrestricted internet access in their own bedrooms are probably at greater risk of something bad happening to them than children without phones travelling to and from school and going out and about.

A raincoat that you put over your head.

www.google.co.uk/search?q=cagoule&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

someone upthread asked along the lines of: what if homework was paper, bus passes were paper etc instead and would you still give your child a smart phone?

My thought is, well, that's 2004, isn't it? Except for one thing: the entire world has changed. There is no way to say what you would do, now, as a parent, even if kids didn't need phones for those things because all the other variables have changed. So, then go back to 2004, for example and your conundrum is a regular mobile phone, a flip phone, or not for your kid. The same questions about safety were asked.
Really, these discussions are a bit pointless.
People were fine without today's technology, but there were pay phones every other block, for example. More people knew their neighbours or other school parents and they knew you and your kids. There was often a door a child could safely knock on if help was needed. To say no one needs a smart phone today really is to cut oneself off from some sort of essential service or communication. Even if it is to just call for help if alone and in trouble. 🤔

Thank you. I thought it was a cagoule. The spelling threw me.

@frozendaisy Street crime like theft, vandalism, attacks, etc. are way down on the 80s. it was ignored/written off far more then too, but none CJS measures like the British crime survey, hospital admissions and insurance claims all show much lower rates.

Digital crime is up, fraud in particular. Sexual crimes are way up but the differences between now and rates in the 1980s/90s are generally thought to be due to greater recording and women recognizing/being prepared to acknowledge assaults rather than a worsening in the assaults women experience.

if no internet before the age of 18 how are the possibly going to be ready for adult life/ the world of work/ university

But payphones are no longer available, and we used them a lot as teens. The most common age to be hit by a car as a child is 12 (because they start walking/getting public transport to school around then), so it's a good time to get them used to having a phone incase they needed one in an emergency. I'd like my kids to be able to phone for any reason though tbh, especially as I have daughters & it's dark by 4pm in Winter, I'd like to be able to contact them & vice versa if they needed me.

They aren’t ready for it now, tbf.

I think the internet is fine but parents should be more IT savvy than their kids so they they can actually control what they are looking at.

That has been the issue - unsupervised access and the fact that the kids know more about how to get round filters etc than their parents.

Its no good letting them have access to all the information (and disinformation) in the world and then complaining because they look at it.

It has come to this because people haven’t supervised or been able to control access

Living near a school (well a Primary and a Secondary) the most common reason fir near misses is ths fact the child has theur face glued to the phone and has wandered out into traffic).
Ive even had a child walk into my stationary car.

Exactly, my kids needed the internet at 17 to apply for uni and student finance.

Those are horrible things to happen but you have to take your chances sometimes. I've told my daughter how to handle situations and one of them is to approach another adult for help. Yes, there's some risk involved in doing that, but you're already in trouble so you have to take your chances. It's beyond sad that people won't help sometimes, or are a danger themselves. Part of the reluctance to help comes from self preservation, people wary of scams or ruses. I totally understand that perspective too.

Yeah I remember payphones Wouldn't have been much use contacting my dad though as we didn't have a phone at home

Well I expect on here a lot of the time parents are doing it for them lol

Don't any parents work with secondary school aged kids that they can sit waiting for a phone call and immediately jump to collect them?

And is imagine that a lot of teenagers get involved in accidents because they have their bloody heads suck in their phone and not looking where they are going( I live 10 mins walk from a secondary school)