To think hierarchy doesn't work at work?

[Scarlettjune]

I have a boss that is currently making my life a misery. She is very hierarchal and she wants me to see her as above me in status. She micro manages constantly. I have had a couple of bosses like her before and it always made the workplace extremely miserable. Hierarchy leaves workplaces open to abuse of power

The best bosses I ever had were the ones that saw themselves as being on the same level as the rest of us. I remember one great boss who said "I'm th same as the rest of you guys I just have different work responsbilities". We all worked really well with hk,

Is it strange? In my last job, my line manager didn't interview me either.

I dont know why she didnt sit in on the interview. Maybe she was on annual leave
. The people that interviewed me in this job are heads of different departments here, but their departments are connected to my department. Like our work is interconnected a bit. But I don't interact with the people that interviewed me that much.

She sounds controlling and useless. Not a leader. Have seen the type, gross.

This sounds like a problem with your manager than with hierarchy per se. You need hierarchy to stop everyone looking at each other when difficult decisions need to be made!

There does need to be a hierarchy, but your manager sounds like a terrible manager!! Micro managers are terrible and you are right to look for a new job

My manager lets me do my job without any interference. But ultimately I answer to her. Or if there are decisions to be made I defer to her - I usually tell her my opinion/ solution but will run it by her.

See my answer above. I wish she had sat in on the interview as maybe we would have both realised it was a bad match. Her not doing the interview also shows how unorganised the place is. I thought one of the people interviewing me was going to be my manager. That wasn't the case. I regret taking this job. I mean I'm grateful that they hired me and they pay me money. But it has destroyed me emotionally and mentally in many ways

That’s not normal. Well, not in any job interview I’ve ever had in my 55 years.

If it is destroying you then you are right to look for a new job. I've had two jobs that were killing me. I stayed in 1 for way too long and the impact on my MH was profound

I don't know. What if the line manager is on annual leave and they need to interview someone. I presume that's what happened

Mostly people arrange interviews for when they’re available! So they’d hold the interviews before or after their annual leave. Most people want to interview their own direct reports.

Hierarchy does not work? Our world is still around today because there are various hierarchies. The only thing that does not have hierarchy is a pile of rubbish (not my words, I think it was some philosopher) - everything else, animal, human groups, etc. immediately organise along hierarchy lines. This is what helps the world saved from anarchy.

I’m very sorry about your friend. But every workplace should have mechanisms in place for raising a grievance in the case of bullying.

Yeah I don't know why she didn't.

And you are also clearly an abuser. I've reported you for personal abuse.

Beginning to think this is just trolling.

Your manager is the problem and their line manager is the problem and hierarchy as a whole concept is the problem, having no separate HR team is the problem… so on and so forth

If what you said is true - that you have received a verbal warning in the workplace and have been asked to ensure you CC your manager on emails - it sounds like YOU might be the problem.

Not to mention when anyone here has tried to offer you solutions or a different viewpoint you have only responded with negativity.

Whether I was your manager or your teammate, I would find your constant negativity, criticism and cynicism very draining.

Sounds like it’s time for a new job?

At one stage I had a senior position in a prison. I overheard my clerical assistant saying to someone ‘TrickyD would never, ever, pull rank’.
It was a lovely thing to hear.

I forgot one fairly minor thing in a year. I don't think it should have been a verbal warning. A man in another team forgot something bigger and he didnt get any warning She also didn't give me a verbal warning in the correct way. I looked up our handbook after and she's supposed to give me the right to tell my side of what happened. She didn't. She just gave me a warning. By email

all of our team have to CC my manager into every email. Not just me

Did you miss the part where I wrote that one of my other colleagues wanted to Bring this woman to a tribunal for bullying. My manager makes people's lives a misery.

That's nice!

The thing is, though, that ultimately there actually is a hierarchy. Your manager probably has a big say in whether you get a pay rise, or get considered for promotion, or if there is a complaint about your work. She is accountable for what you do. If she's asked about it, no-one will be impressed if she says "No idea, I just leave ScarlettJune to it".

What a petty narcissistic woman she sounds. She clearly enjoys the power trip. Some folk like to aim for management to make progress and improvements. She's just enjoying making her subordinates scared of her. She's controlling and a useless manager whose harsh behaviour will only cause workers to make more mistakes.

Yes - but that doesn’t prove there’s anything wrong with a hierarchy at work in general, just that there’s something wrong with the way she uses it.

Someone has to make the big decisions and be accountable for them. It wouldn't be reasonable for people to be held accountable if they couldn’t have any influence over what others in their organisation do.

For instance, I’m a primary teacher. If there were no Headteacher, who would take the final decision on what reading scheme or handwriting style the school should use, when every class teacher might have different preferences? Who would have an overview of how the school works as a whole, where the weaknesses lie and what the priorities should be? The HT is the boss and is the one held accountable for the school's success or failure, so it’s only reasonable for her to have the final say regarding policies etc.

Your boss is obviously very insecure and feels she needs to micro-manage. But if you and some of your fellow-workers were slackers who sent inappropriate emails, she might be perfectly justified in her actions. Assuming you aren’t and don’t, the fault lies with her, not the system.

Disagree that hierarchy itself is bad. I think hierarchy is necessary and healthy in most workplaces. Someone has to make decisions, handle leave requests, performance management, mentoring, accountability etc.

The issue is when people use hierarchy as a status thing or a power trip. You can have hierarchy without treating people like they’re beneath you. Having tried a flat structure it often leads to other issues - directionless teams, teams without an advocate, lack of management of problem individuals etc.

Hierarchy = good
Arseholery = bad

I disagree. I think you can be a good or bad manager whatever your style.

Your manager is a shit manager and has an authoritarian style. She micromanages and has no respect for people. That's not OK. I've worked for authoritarian managers before who were perfectly ok, they were happy for people to get on with stuff but did want final sign off on bigger topics. We just needed to get used to each other and then they backed off.

I also think it's a bit daft to say 'I'm just the same as you all'...they're not the same, they have the final say in everyone's pay review and are ultimately responsible for the teams results. A manager like that may not be able to make tough decisions when needed as they don't want to upset anyone. For instance I've worked for managers like that who won't address poor performance as they don't want to have a difficult conversation. They haven't wanted to give anyone good or bad end of year reviews incase it upset people so they've given everyone exactly the same score no matter how they've performed (and been open about their approach). They didn't give much direction.

There is a middle ground. I'm sorry your manager is awful though, agree with PP it might be best to leave if you don't think it will be addressed

I was told off by my new boss for something minor and inconsequential (having done her job before, it’s the kind of thing I’d have done a general reminder to try harder on in a weekly meeting for all staff) in front of other colleagues. I’ve never been told off in my 15 years in my profession, not by anyone,
but 3 weeks back from mat leave there I was!

'Hierarchy' isn't the problem, it's the wrong person in the wrong job.