To think hierarchy doesn't work at work?

[Scarlettjune]

I have a boss that is currently making my life a misery. She is very hierarchal and she wants me to see her as above me in status. She micro manages constantly. I have had a couple of bosses like her before and it always made the workplace extremely miserable. Hierarchy leaves workplaces open to abuse of power

The best bosses I ever had were the ones that saw themselves as being on the same level as the rest of us. I remember one great boss who said "I'm th same as the rest of you guys I just have different work responsbilities". We all worked really well with hk,

I had a really paranoid manager who was a head of dept. He insisted everyone copy him into every email as he didn't want stuff going on behind his back. Absolute nightmare of a man who ran the department into the ground. He was also not very bright.

No, she doesn’t trust the team. They haven’t demonstrated their competence to us sufficiently that she knows she can leave them to it.

Do you make a habit of pointing out everyone’s typos?

Whenever I resent anyone higher than me I think would I want their job? Their pressure and stress? I let go whatever it is that bothers me, I do the job and ignore any resentment I may have because there’s no way I could work at their level

My team consistently get really positive feedback from the clients we served. I have never heard of my boss praising anyone in my team,. I've only seen her constantly point out people's minor errors. She definitely abuses her power. She enjoys abusing people. I've seen her smile after being nasty to one of my team members

Someone has to be accountable, but that doesn’t mean they need to be reminding everyone they are the boss. The best managers are those who treat everyone like human beings, but have an open door where problems can be raised for the managers to resolve. It everyone is on the same level that’s fine until some problems arise.

Exactly. Hierarchies are sometimes needed because some people have more responsibility than others, and a wider overview of what’s needed in an organisation. Whether or not they are good managers, and the fact that everyone is intrinsically of equal worth as a person, have nothing to do with it.

Hierarchy is sometimes important in the workplace, as it shows who is accountable and responsible for making things happen properly.

My current job is experimenting with 'matrix management' - where you have 'assignment managers' for each project you are involved with, and 'career managers' who look after your annual leave, sickness and development. All gets quite confusing - my current career manager is on the same grade as me, which meant that when we both applied for the same promotion role I felt I was unable to get support from my career manager, because we were competitors.

When I managed large public-sector teams I used to say to team members - 'you don't work for me, I work for you. We're all working for the general public and my job as manager is to make sure you have everything you need to do your jobs properly'. Worked quite nicely.

People who enforce hierarchy via micro-management, have petty rules, invest too much in their own authority are usually inadequate managers, anxious about their own abilities, and these will occur in many and any settings. Hierarchy at work is not always bad, and sometimes it is necessary. Poor management is always a problem, whatever the set-up.

In my opinion, it has a lot to do with it.

My boss would not be able to abuse people the way that she does if there was not a hierarchal system in place. She abuses her power

Humans respond better to respect, than they do to being dominated and treated like crap

Yep. ALL of the shit managers I've worked for have been power hungry and treated those (or some of them) that worked for them like shit.

Some people just aren't management material. I have been a manager and got far more out of my staff through treating them with kindness and supporting them. There will always be 1 or 2 that take the piss but on the whole, supporting your staff pays off hugely. Having said that, I am not management material. I hate having to organise other adults and it annoys me when they don't do their jobs to the best of their ability (differing levels of ability are a totally different thing).

"When I managed large public-sector teams I used to say to team members - 'you don't work for me, I work for you. We're all working for the general public and my job as manager is to make sure you have everything you need to do your jobs properly'. Worked quite nicely."

Now that is good management!

Micromanaging is a big no no. I had a manager who did this and it was tedious and slowed down everything.
But management is a hyerarchy. Your manager is responsible for what you do, decisions you make etc. And the manager above them is also responsible for work/decisions they make.
I mean do you expect the whole workforce to have a vote or something? Ultimately managers make final decisions. Perhaps you could give it a try?

My manager said to me herself once that she is "a control freak". I just want to get out of there.

I have to jump into the lottery of bosses again.

We can plan for so much in our lives, but we have no idea what our next boss will be like.

There needs to be some level of hierarchy but the gradient can't be too steep - in healthcare, a steep hierarchy gradient (think nurse to surgeon) has been shown to impact patient safety as people at the bottom of the gradient don't feel safe to speak up (or will be dismissed if they do!).
Micromanagement comes from poor leadership and insecurity - I imagine that your manager gets that from above to. An emotionally intelligent manager will lead and not micromanage - unless someone isn't performing and then it's their responsibility to manage that particular individual.
My current line manager is amazing and trusts us to get on with the job. We are all professional adults and do perfectly well! If someone doesn't do this, they are managed appropriately.

Manager like the one you describe are over-promoted bullies who deep down are not confident about their abilities and take it out on their staff.

I agree with you as well the because someone is a manager/director/CEO it does not make them any better than me as a human being, especially if they can't even do their job properly, and we are all equal.

I really don't like how some workplaces see staff as serfs/properties and leading does not mean crushing your team members just because you can.

I work to the best of my abilities and receive a wage in return, that does not mean the company can treat me like dirt or 'owns' me.

Managers like yours just lose good team members who can get other jobs where they can be treated correctly.

Oh but she would.

People have this idea that non hierarchical organisations are a free for all and everyone gets to do as they please. Reality is, there are usually a fuckload of written polcies and procedures and someone to enforce them (allbeit at the same level as everyone else)
No hierarchy is not a guarantee you won't be micromanaged.

Just from my personal experience, there was a lot less abuse of people in workplaces that had less hierarchal management

What sector do you work in? Your manager sounds unhinged and may be abusing her position.

Work in the tech sector, it's all flat hierarchies as there can be no innovation and growth in a hierarchical organisation.

It depends on the team. Proactive people who quality control their work and are inquisitive enough to look for ways of doing things better are great and dont need micromanaging.

then there are people who think they should get employee of the year because they managed to log in.

then there are people who think they should be the CEO, that everybody else is stupid, and that their purpose is to highlight how incompetent everybody else is.

which camp do you fall in?

I just do my job, the same as everyone else on my team does.

You’re conflating 2 separate things.

There’s being in charge and then there’s being a bully.

Some people the power goes to their head and they are vile people who should never be in charge of others.

But I think hierarchy is important.
As humans we need a leader.

Managers have to make important decisions like hiring and disciplining people and you do need hierarchy to do that.

My boss is amazing. We go out drinking with him, we joke around with him and we work in a very challenging environment where the higher up people are very difficult and our boss will be the one to take all the shit on our behalf.
But he is our boss still and although he’s very down to earth, when he talks, we listen type thing.
He has shouted at people and pulled people up on their lack of work etc.

OTH just before going to him, I had a boss that was everyone’s friend and ‘on the same level as everyone else’ - she was lovely but an awful manager.
There was a lot of bullying and people taking the piss, meaning we’d do extra work to pick up their slack.
She was too busy trying to not be too ‘bossy’ but it created an awful working environment.
She should have cared less about making friends and being seen as on the same level and cracked the whip more.

Your boss is just a complete bitch with a power trip.
We need hierarchy as you need someone above her to tell her that her behaviour is completely unacceptable.

It seems a shame that you have to leave your job because of her and I’d advise you to report her, not care what she thinks etc but sometimes it’s not worth the hassle.

I worked in a place with bitchy colleagues and it was awful. I could not imagine that bitchyness coming from a manager 💐

Yes you do. You meet them at interview. You are permitted to ask questions. Ask them about their management style.

My line manager recently spit her dummy out because she found out she gets paid less than one of the people she manages 🤣

She also loves an email and a bit of micro managing.

From your OP and the replies that followed, you sound like a nightmare to work with, sorry.

You don't often meet your line manager at interview. My current horrible manager didn't interview me. I only met her after I started the job

In my last Job, my line manager didn't interview me.