To think hierarchy doesn't work at work?

[Scarlettjune]

I have a boss that is currently making my life a misery. She is very hierarchal and she wants me to see her as above me in status. She micro manages constantly. I have had a couple of bosses like her before and it always made the workplace extremely miserable. Hierarchy leaves workplaces open to abuse of power

The best bosses I ever had were the ones that saw themselves as being on the same level as the rest of us. I remember one great boss who said "I'm th same as the rest of you guys I just have different work responsbilities". We all worked really well with hk,

The Army manage OK...

Does it? Because I know two ex army guys and both are traumatised from their Time in the army!

I agree. The constant reminders that they are in charge are pitiful. My old boss was great, always made me feel like we were a team. I respected her and loved working for/with her.

Someone has to be accountable, otherwise there will always be a situation one day when everybody thinks « someone else will do it » and nobody does.
You also need someone to have final say when there is no team consensus.
Or someone with the legitimity to challenge certain behaviours - for ex a team member who is always late / avoids certain tasks / is rude / etc

Yeah but can't they just ask "did you get that done". One of my bosses was not hierarchal in any way, and the work always got done.

Hierarchal bosses often seem to abuse their power

The best bosses/leaders are those who are confident and competent enough that they don’t need to remind everyone they are the boss every 5 mins.

Military is different. You need to follow orders or people die. It’s that simple.

I did something at work the other day that was very minor. My boss said to me "you should have asked a senior manager can you do that".

She also insists on being cc'd in on every email that anyone sends, so "a senior manager" can see it. She drives us all mad

Exactly!

I don’t trust the ‘I’m just like you guys’ type bosses though as ime they are the first to drop you in it!

She is insecure.

I’ve had bosses who wouldn’t make unpopular but necessary decisions because they wanted to be liked by everyone, so I don’t agree. An effective manager can’t be “on the same level”.

The best bosses find the right balance between being too autocratic and being a pushover. They are rare.

The one I had never dropped any of us in it. He was great from beginning to end. To everyone,

He said that he had actually learned to be a good manager from his dad, who was a manager. His dad told him to treat people with respect

I've had definitely had effective managers that were on the same level. I mean we are all on the same level as human beings. They are not worth more than we are.

Oh my dear, what has worked best for you doeasn't mean the whole banana/Hierarchy doesn't exist in the main.

It does. It sucks. We erode it.....

Micromanagement often comes from leadership insecurities. Theres a massive difference between a leader and a manager. Give me a reflective receptive leader any day, someone who helps build a joint vision and great team work and entrusts workers and constructively resolves issues through supervisions and probations.

She also insists on being cc'd in on every email that anyone sends, so "a senior manager" can see it. She drives us all mad

That is a bizarre level of micro managing, if it applies to everyone and not just those on probation or a competency procedure.

But I disagree with your premise that hierarchy doesn't work.
As pp says, you need managers to ensure everyone is doing what they should, at a very minimum. You need managers so that you know who to turn to when you need support or even to answer a query. Depending on the size of the organisation you work for, you need managers to go to all the really boring, frustrating 'strategic' level meetings, argue your Team's case, and then come back to the Team to share the next set of decisions made.

I disagree and I will be voting with my feet and moving jobs until I find a less hierarchal manager . I am not going to be treated like a child anymore

It applies to everyone. We have a group email that we all can see in our team, and we also all have a private email . If we don't see anything from our private email to the group email, she goes mad.

For example, she accused me one time of not contacting a customer. I said that I had done it and I forwarded the email on to her, she then went mad at me that hadn't sent it to the group email .

I feel like I'm in an abusive relationship, some of the things she does is unbelievable sometimes. She also watches us on cctv a lot

Your boss is not on the same level as you, op!
You don’t seem to understand how hierarchies work.
Your issues with her micromanaging are a different matter entirely.

I mean she is worth the same as me as a human being, she is not worth more than me. I think that hirarchal systems are old fashioned

It’s a bizarre viewpoint.
She has more responsibility than you have, and she’ll be paid accordingly.
Any group with employees at different levels are hierarchical, it’s the very definition of the word 🤷🏻‍♀️
Your respective worth as human beings doesn’t come into it.
She may be a shite manager, but none of the rest of your grievances make any sense at all.

I can see it working well in places like schools, hospitals and the military where clear structure and authority are genuinely needed. But in most businesses I’m not convinced it’s the best way.
I think we’d often get better outcomes with a more collaborative approach and some proper profit sharing. A lot of industries are pretty dull and routine, so half the problem is people competitively fighting and politicking over the more interesting bits of work, while the boring but essential stuff gets dumped on whoever’s lower down.
Has anyone else noticed this in their workplace?

Yes, I agree, in most settings, I'm of the opinion everyone is equal and that you just have different roles. A democratic leadership style fits most environments best. No one likes being micromanaged. Most people respond best to a collaborative approach where everyone's different skills are valued. I think you can talk to people about performance/be firm when needed without an old school style hierarchy in place.

Hierarchy is only really relevant in places like the military, where there is a clear chain of command for obvious reasons. The other time it is relevant is in emergencies in certain settings. For example, in a crisis in A&E, there is a clear chain of hierarchy due to everyone's experience/education level, and in an emergency, someone has to take accountability and leadership and a more autocratic approach is needed. I work in healthcare and most of the time I just see our consultant psychiatrist as equal but fulfilling a different role, BUT I respect that if I am struggling with a patient, I will often default to her plan, and certainly in an emergency (e.g. someone at risk of sectioning), I seek her advice as she has overall responsibility, which is how a hierarchy should work.

Hierarchy isn't about status or anyone being better than anyone else. It's about chain of responsibility and knowing when someone who isn't you needs to make a decision. People higher up are paid to take accountability, so let them!

Oh I'd be so petty and I would be sending emails every hour on the hour about useless 💩

She also overly watches people on CCTV. Like she will rewind it back and watch what we did the day before. Someone else compained about this, that it was not correct use of cctv, and she told me that in response to that -my manager just stopped speaking to her for a week.