To think hierarchy doesn't work at work?

[Scarlettjune]

I have a boss that is currently making my life a misery. She is very hierarchal and she wants me to see her as above me in status. She micro manages constantly. I have had a couple of bosses like her before and it always made the workplace extremely miserable. Hierarchy leaves workplaces open to abuse of power

The best bosses I ever had were the ones that saw themselves as being on the same level as the rest of us. I remember one great boss who said "I'm th same as the rest of you guys I just have different work responsbilities". We all worked really well with hk,

You do have power. You can leave.

Above a certain number of employees you need a hierarchy to channel the strategy down from the top. But what youre describing is a power tripping arse who is taking advantage of that hierarchy to throw her weight around.

Not if she doesn't give me a good reference. We have no HR department. She is the only person that can give me a reference and she does not like me

I think the best bosses enable natural respect from their employees or those that work under them. I agree with others on here, it doesn't need bossing around, enforcing dominance, laying out orders. Real respect comes from respecting your staff and supporting them. Sometimes that support comes from needing to do unpleasant things, like deal with mistakes someone's made or use workplace policy in a disciplinary way. But real workplace loyalty comes from valuing your staff and treating them respectfully and as if you care about them.

Those bosses / managers are unfortunately in the minority. But they are fabulous to work for when you get one and I would posit get much more out of their employees as a result.

I hate being micromanaged but hierarchy is important especially if something goes wrong.

What is the downside to you of copying her in? It’s her inbox that gets clogged, not yours.

I think you’re confusing different issues. Micro management is poor management, hierarchy is necessary generally for appropriate placement of responsibility and decision making.

Just because you have a bad manager doesn’t mean management as a whole is flawed. You can’t have everyone in the workplace doing the same role, seniors are there for accountability and ensuring delivery. They are paid more than you for this reason. I wouldn’t be impressed if a manager of mine down played their role, I am reliant on them, I expect them to do the role assigned to them or I cannot do mine properly.

Is it a local authority@Scarlettjune? I worked at a place like that, no one could actually get on with their job in my department as there was so much asking for and sign off needed. It was shockingly badly managed, morale was on the floor and bullying commonplace. People were routinely managed out if they didn’t fall in to line. You describe the same very old school type of management culture where innovation and initiative is absolutely trampled on in favour of sycophancy and obedience.

This screams you have issues with authority to be honest.

you may not like it but any workplace comes with a heirachy as a nice as the management may be they are still management

I cannot abide micromanagement. We are all adults, let’s get the job done and get on. I am there to support, I’ve neither the time nor the inclination to “remind” everyone I’m in charge every 5 minutes, what would it achieve? Ultimately though, the book stops with me, so if I have it pull rank to get things done, I will. That is rare though and only ever happens with staff who are trying to take the piss.

The issue isn't hierarchy though. You need someone to be ultimately responsible and someone to make decisions. I've worked in an organisation where "everyone had to agree". It just means that you go round and round in discussions and never get anything done.

Your issue is that your manager micromanages. This is disempowering and frustrating for you. If your manager stopped doing this, but the hierarchy still existed (e.g. your manager still set team priorities but then left you to it; they were an escalation point in case of issues etc.), I suspect you would be quite happy.

The downside is we get abused if we forget to do it. Even for minor emails, we have all forgot to do it, as we are all used to sending emails from out private work emails, from previous jobs.

It’s the buck that stops, not the book!

You might not like it, but if I were you I would just copy her in on absolutely everything and ask her before you do anything at all, anything to make your life easier while you look for something else. Malicious compliance!
You never know, if you copy her in on everything, then maybe she won’t feel the need to ask you, and she might back off eventually.

Of course hierarchy is needed in the workplace.

The problem isn’t hierarchy. The problem is shit bosses who don’t know how to manage.

With respect I think you’re being a bit naive about how workplaces work. In most businesses there needs to be some sort of hierarchy or things just don’t get done. Its very hard to run all the functions of a business properly when no one has the ultimate responsibility for decisions.

But good bosses don’t micromanage (except perhaps when a new staff member is being onboarded). They lead by example, delegate and supervise.

I think the idea of a hierarchy free workplace is unrealistic though.

As I wrote, I have worked in a workplace where there was no hierarchy at all. All of the work got done,

Humans respond better to respect, than they do to being dominated and treated like crap

The issue isn't "hierarchy", it's the micromanaging. Of course your manager is "higher" than you at work, she is responsible for managing the team.

I manage a team at work. They have to get certain things signed off by me. That's just a fact. It also means if the shit hits the fan and it's due to something I signed off the buck stops with me. That's the effect of the higher responsibilities.

Micromanaging is silly though. Who has time for that. My own manager asks people NOT to cc him in to all and sundry, just stuff he really needs to be aware of.

OK so that is indeed weird.

It was hard to know from your description to that point if there was anything wrong but that should have been raised to her line manager or HR if you have HR.
She has some issues.

Has anyone watched below deck, the documentary about working in a yacht. They have hierarchy of stewardesses. Nicknamed stew

There was one season where the second stew kept shouting at the third stew, 'I am second stew. Second stew outranks you! There is a hierarchy!"
The third stew woman wouldn't take it, and complained about the second stew to the manager.

I have already written this. We don't have a HR department.

I agree. I manage people but of course im
no better than them. I can’t let them get on with it because they don’t, someone needs to be in charge to hold everyone to a certain standard, to deal with problems that arise and be the one to take the flak.

I don’t envy my boss at all. I find the people most bothered about the power imbalance are those with the least who push back against what they perceive as unfairness.

Being a manager doesn’t mean you are dominating nor treating people like crap.
The two just don’t automatically follow.
It does mean you have to get the tasks the team have to do, done.
You can treat people with respect and still be a great manager. Who will be paid more than their team are.

You seem to have a problem with anyone being superior to you
of course your boss is a higher level ridiculous to say you should all be the same

I suspect you resent authority

Her line manager is not great either. A woman that used to work there told me that she complained about my manager to her line manager.

What happened was -the woman that complained was made redundant. There seems to be a culture of abuse, and managers are allowed to do what they want