To think hierarchy doesn't work at work?

[Scarlettjune]

I have a boss that is currently making my life a misery. She is very hierarchal and she wants me to see her as above me in status. She micro manages constantly. I have had a couple of bosses like her before and it always made the workplace extremely miserable. Hierarchy leaves workplaces open to abuse of power

The best bosses I ever had were the ones that saw themselves as being on the same level as the rest of us. I remember one great boss who said "I'm th same as the rest of you guys I just have different work responsbilities". We all worked really well with hk,

Do you think the boss would just accept that? Or would they realise you were being childish and deal with the situation accordingly?

I mean people are going to stand up to abuse and Micro managing

One of my friends killed herself after being bullied at work by a manager. I never understood at the time why she didn't just leave.

Now I have a terrible manager myself, I understand her. She was broken down mentally. It's like a abusive relationship. The managers constantly wear us down by telling us that we are useless, stupid etc. And we have no power whatsoever to stand up to them, as they have all the power. The last woman that stood up to my manager got made redundant. And then we worry that if we try to leave they will give us a bad reference. It can feel like being trapped in hell.

I sympathise as I was bullied so badly I was self harming and suicidal. I stayed too long. I had things thrown at me, was shouted at and made to feel like shit.

But if you can’t handle it, go elsewhere while you still have the mental fortitude and confidence to do it. I imagine your anger is reflected in your attitude as it’s impossible for it not to be. Things will then break down completely.

Sooner or later the staff turnover will be noticed and the higher ups can do something or not - either way it’s not your problem by then

Are you in the UK? As far as I know, references are generally just factual usually - start and finish dates etc

Yes U.K.

That can't be the case Anarchy99 as I recently read an online UK article. The woman spoke about how her current boss sabotaged her from getting a new job, by giving her a bad reference. She only found out, because several of the prospective employers told the agency hat she was using

Most employers only ask for a factual one. It’s in a standard form from the new employer that the old one is asked to fill in.

If for any reason they decide to sabotage you, ACAS sets out the options here

https://www.acas.org.uk/providing-a-job-reference

Plus most crappy employers are only too happy to get rid of staff

I hope so Anarchy99. Thanks.

If you are concerned, give ACAS a call as apparently they are very helpful. Don’t let them break you so badly that you don’t have the confidence to do what is right for you

YABU - because what you talking about is not hierarchy, it is poor management.

Yes its poor management. It's also hierarchy. So many things that we do, she insists on us 'asking the senior manager' before we do it

What is needed when you're working with a lot of people is clear role definitions. That usually comes with some level of hierarchy.

You're complaining about bad management. A good manager shouldn't have time to micromanage. I don't have time to double check everything my team does, but I trust them to know when to escalate, what things I need informing about, what things I need to sign off on. I don't tell them absolutely everything I do, but I pass on relevant information, tasks and so on. It works because we know the expectations of our roles within the wider hierarchy.

I think a lot of people feel problems where the wrong person was given the job as 'boss'.
They don't necessarily have the same level of knowledge as those they are meant to manage.
The workers know the boss doesn't have as much knowledge/skills and the boss knows too. They are insecure about this so then try to micro manage.

The CCTV watching indicates she's a control freak. Same as the needing to be cc'd on everything. Can you put someone else in your organisation as a reference OP?

You are confusing hierarchy with bad management. The former is important. The latter is a fault.

I’d ask her if it’s ok to cc a junior manager 😂

I totally agree with you OP!

Micromanagement leads to unhappy employees and reduced productivity. Eventually either people stop doing anything except the bare minimum, go off sick with stress or leave.

Bosses who treat their employees with respect and like adults get much better results and less staff turnover.

Your manager sounds awful. But that’s not the fault of the hierarchy. That’s because she’s a shit manager. I don’t think you need to stand on ceremony particularly and a hierarchy that is too rigid is not helpful for anyone but there needs to be certain amount of structure for a team to operate well - clear direction from the top, escalation paths, coaching/feedback. It doesn’t mean that you can’t work collaboratively or that the person in the higher role is always right but I think most teams respond well to some kind of formalised structure.

Hierarchy isn’t the issue, it’s her. Hierarchy is the only way a workplace can function unless you try out some kind of communist system where everyone has the same level of responsibility and therefore wage. I don’t think profiteering businesses would go for that.

No the concept of hierarchy at work is fine and necessary because someone has to make decisions and be accountable. I've been involved in 2 projects where there was no 'manager' but what was called 'distributed leadership'. The first one appointed a manager after a year of chaos where decisions were changed on a daily basis, the second one is still floundering and achieving nothing.

your problem is your boss is an arse, not the existence of a work structure

There are some cutures (potentially more respectful than the UK currently) where hierarchy is fundamental and everyone accepts that. My experience of these places is that it takes longer to get stuff done because of all of the management layers needing approvals. I think the UK is moving towards more flattened structures therefore heirarchy is less.
My own experience of micromanagers is that they are usually pretty poor at their job and certainly lack confidence in the role and seem to think they have to make up for it with micromanaging. Or that the person they are micromanaging is lazy (at least in their eyes) and they feel it’s the only way.

However I don’t blame that on heirarchy it’s just individuals being crap

I am in favour of structure. People are paid differently because they carry a different load in terms of responsibility. I like to think that a surgeon in a hospital theatre is in charge and doesn’t have to have a consensus of agreement with all and sundry while doing the operation. Ditto in the army, or a pilot. Or loads of jobs.
Getting your team to function relies on not being friends but on being task focused. You can have someone who says ‘I’m the same as you’. Except they aren’t. Or their job in the organisation is not. If rubbish hits the fan they should take the flak. If things go well, the team get the praise.

As to micro managing. You have to be sure that it is. Asking someone how is something coming along is probably because you have not kept them up to date. And their boss is asking them how it is coming along.

Someone once said to me that structure doesn’t matter, personalities do. I could not have disagreed with them more. Both matter.

What a stifling environment to work in. Autocratic managers only belong in certain work situations, otherwise they destroy team morale. I couldn't work for her.

How does she have the time to to be cc'd in every email and watch you on cctv. Does she actually do anything herself? That is an insane level of micro managing.

Even in non-hierarchical organisations a natural hierarchy will form, be it based on experience, confidence, length of service, pay, whatever.

You just have a crap manager.

The army use a model of servant leadership which is supposed to flip the hierarchy. So if you're an officer your job is serving your unit and supporting them.