to think it is acceptable to smack someone if they touch your body, even if they have dementia?

[haleey]

I visit my grandad in a care home regularly and sometimes male residents will touch women unexpectedly. I’ve had my waist touched, boobs grabbed and one man touched my privates while smiling at me. I know they are ill and confused, but honestly I think people act as though women are supposed to just tolerate it because “they can’t help it”.

Part of this for me is that I have been assaulted before, so my reflex when someone suddenly touches me unexpectedly is to hit out before I even properly think. It is an automatic panic response.

Recently one resident suddenly grabbed me and I instinctively smacked his hand away. One of the staff immediately told me off and said “he can’t help it”. I understand that dementia affects behaviour and judgement, but I found it upsetting that the focus instantly became about him rather than acknowledging that I had just been touched without consent and panicked.

I’m not talking about beating vulnerable elderly people or deliberately hurting confused residents. But I also don’t think women should be expected to quietly accept unwanted touching because the person is elderly or cognitively impaired.

Great advice to someone who has PTSD from sexual assault.

I wonder if they have any hobs or stoves at the care home. What are the heights of the hobs? Are the rings at the top?

I agree that she should report the staff's total failure at safeguarding to someone higher up, as it sounds like they don't care about the well-being of anyone at all.

I really don't think a smack on the hand is a dreadful trauma, and I think it's odd that a man groping a sexual assault victim's intimate areas is being minimised, while a slap on the hand to knock it away is being catastrophised... But yes, it seems as though seeing her grandfather in his room might be the only way she can avoided being sexually assaulted and then victim blamed, if the care home won't do anything about it.

It's disgraceful on the care home's part, the way they're failing everyone in the situation.

They must be really low then. Sorry, I seem to be over invested in this. 🤔

😂

"Mental capacity, whether low intelligence or dementia should not be seen as an excuse for sexual violence. Yes, those individuals may have diminished ability, but they still recognise what they are doing. "

No in many cases they do not. It's clear you have no experience in this area.

How can you know what I want?

They're not. Very average.

Oh, that sounds great, OP! I hope that perhaps they can actually resolve the root issue and prevent the inappropriate behaviour - although I imagine it's not that likely, sadly, with high turnover etc.

I do have PTSD from sexual assault. I have never hit a resident with dementia.

Well done you!

Yes really. However, it seems you have a short fuse about people replying to you on a forum. Especially if they disagree with you. So I will stop replying as I don't want to cause you further distress about people who "just won't stop" replying to your shite.

Do you think you should just be able to post and no one replies?

Well, thanks i guess. But actually it's easy.
There's lots of other ways to deal with this issue, as previous posters have repeatedly pointed out, but you seem insistent on the fact that these old pervs need a smack, regularly.

Sorry to hear that and sorry to see the response you got. X

There is no victim blaming on this thread. There is however an awful lot of ignorance about dementia and its impact on the brain.

Don't worry, I'm not distressed. Reply away! I'm really not sure what exactly is so short fused about my amusement at the way you latched onto 20 Questions about the stove anecdote, as I had thought you might.

But no, I'm not particularly tolerant of people who argue in bad faith.

Trying to catch people out over stoves is just silly. I'm really not sure what you were trying to argue by saying "Could you not just have moved her hand without "slapping" it?" after I was already very clear why. Or why you're going on about heights?

I'm also not keen on people who expect women to not react badly to being groped.

Clearly, you don't have a trauma response that triggers a physical 'get away! stop touching me' instinctive response when you're groped, if you think it's easy.

Lovely that you found it easy. If only every sexual assault victim could be like you.

but you seem insistent on the fact that these old pervs need a smack, regularly.

🙄

Yes. It is an appropriate response.

Was he smaller and weaker than the woman? Had he previously been sexually assaulted by a woman? Did he feel intimidated or frightened? If any of those things are not true, then it's not really comparable.

I certainly don't think he should have embraced it and laughed it off. I enquired about whether his situation was comparable to OP's - what about that says I think he should have embraced it, or laughed it off? (Answer: Nothing)

You have every right to act instinctively and swat their hands away but you cannot say everyone here is victim blaming. No one is condoning the behaviour of these men however if they lack mental capacity then the 'intent' behind sexual assault is not there.

The men that are residents of this home are there due to this lack of mental capacity and often, challenging behaviour that comes with this. It is absolutely not acceptable that they are doing this to you and staff should do more to prevent it but unfortunately this is a very common problem when parts of the brain deteriorate and the awareness of social norms, and inhibitions disappear.

The care home need to be doing more to prevent this from happening whilst you try to keep out of arms of reach of any other resident. You should definitely try and visit your relative in a more private environment. These men are residents and adults that lack capacity and will have more rights than you do in that situation unfortunately so you need to control the factors you can control and pursue the care home over their management of the situation.

It would be lovely not to be affected by trauma responses!

I'm not sure why everyone keeps acting as though you love beating up old men! They're entirely misrepresenting a smack to the hand that is touching you intimately. Whether they agree it's appropriate or excusable or not, misrepresenting and over-dramatising it only hurts their argument.

It's also very disappointing to keep seeing people making arguments that centre men - even when the man is the victim of groping, there's a certain tone that seems to treat it as more distressing than when it happens to a woman.

When you were diagnosed with PTSD did you receive counselling/therapy?

Have you explored options other than “I have trauma so I am not BU”?

I do have that response actually. Not just groped either, just touch will do it.
But still, no hitting vulnerable people...

No slapping a man with dementia is not reasonable.

What's the eye roll for? You have clearly stated that you will continue to hit residents who touch you.
You have clearly ignored or refused all other strategies suggested to you that do not involve hitting.