AIBU to think arriving late and skipping a course was fine?

[Ellenie]

I will say in advance we don’t tend to do very formal meals all that often in our family or circle so this is an unfamiliar environment to me.

Last night we attended a formal/black tie event, arranged by a relative. A meal followed by a showing of his new creative project then some drinks.

DS and his girlfriend arrived about 10 minutes late to the meal, his girlfriend skipped the started opting for just wine instead. They didn’t apologise for being late just took their seats etc.

DH thinks it was very rude for them to be late, not apologise and for DS’s girlfriend to just have wine when everyone else was eating, as this made him uncomfortable.
He is insistent we should “have a word with them”.

AIBU to think it’s a total non issue, not rude and they were fine, didn’t do anything wrong.
They attend formal events much more often than we do, seemed very comfortable and she didn’t make a big deal out of not ordering starter, no I’m dieting/I ate a big lunch discourse, just no starter for me thank you. As for being late I think 10 minutes is within an acceptable range and they didn’t have to apologise as we were also just guests and the host would be none the wiser.
Is DH being dramatic?

I've been to loads of business black tie events over the years. There were always people who for unavoidable reasons often to do with babysitter problems etc which resulted in being 10 or 15 minutes late. Nobody was so judgemental as to deem them rude. The late comers would usually give a quick apology at the table with a feasible reason & go on to enjoy the evening.

Really? I don’t understand how this would work but I guess that would explain the OTT and probably quite outdated description of a formal do!

I agree with your husband, I’m afraid.
It’s different from ‘non connected’ guests.

Sorry I meant AI C&P'd for the "rules"..... I dont get the capitals either!

Is she from a culture where it would be bizarre to start dinner at 7pm? I think 7pm is early to start and I am British! Especially for london, seems early even to me. I bet she thought there would be mingling first

What you are describing is a ceremonial dinner (university formals, military mess, civic banquets etc).

While the dress code for a ceremonial dinner may be either black or white tie, that doesn’t mean that every black tie event is a ceremonial dinner.

OP, I'm with you. It sounds like a non issue. It would have been rude for you or DH to comment on it at the time and I wouldn't get involved in having a 'word.' What would be the point?

If the lateness was habitual that might be different. It is perfectly acceptable to decline a starter for reasons that don't need to be explained. I hate being late myself but I don't let other people's lateness be a problem-I think it is nice they made it. My DSS is horrendously late and often forgets about social arrangements. We send reminders and give him an adapted start time to events when it matters but are always pleased to see him so don't make it an issue.

My parents are sticklers for prompt arrivals-always fifteen minutes early minimum. We equally give them an adapted start time on occasion. I have been to collect them on time on several occasions and found them standing on their lawn in their coats remarking that they wondered if they'd got the wrong day. It is a bit irritating and doesn't always get the social occasion off to a flying start! Nice that he and his girlfriend were willing to attend the evening I think.

I get really annoyed when people come early!

God yes. Arriving early is orders of magnitude more rude than arriving late.

it was 6.30 for arrival to sit at 7 , it woyld be normal to aim to arrive at 6,40-50 so a few minutes contingency arrival after 7 is late in reality if sitting is at 7 anything much after 6.55 is a scramble as the kitchen will have timed everything to start at 7

If they gave an apology, whch they didn’t, that might have been okay.

Im sorry but are you genuinely saying its better to order and waste food than decline a course they wont eat? Thats ridiculous, there is so much food waste already and to me that is far more rude than ordering what you will actually eat. Absolutely ridiculous to order excess food, shuffle it around a plate all in the name of 'manners'!

Some of you seen unpleasantly judgemental. Being ten minutes late is in my book not "unspeakably rude" or any of the things it's been called on here. It's unfortunately sometimes unavoidable, for example if your taxi is late, traffic is bad etc etc.

Those who find it "unforgivable" - how do you avoid it? Do you plan to arrive two hours early and loiter outside the venue? I'd be horrified if any of my guests were so scared of my disapproval they felt it necessary to do so.

The starter thing is obviously preferable to ordering food that would be left uneaten, or forcing yourself to eat food you don't want.

What also perplexes me, is why OP's husband needs her to "have a word". If he is that bothered why doesn't he speak to his child himself? He's an adult. (I think he will make himself look ridiculous to his possible future daughter-in-law, but that's his look out.

These are adults who may have apologised to the host, you aren’t actually sure?

I don’t see why this would need a parental talking to tbh. If my mum called me up to say “did you apologise for lateness??” I’d think she’d lost her mind. If he’s polite, he’ll have apologised. If not, I still don’t think it’s something a parent can give an adult a ticking off over.

It’s wasteful to accept food that you don’t like or won’t eat, although I suppose if it’s pre paid she could have accepted it and given to her neighbours on the table. I think it’s so strange to not have a mingle and drinks reception for ANY event before a meal is served. If an invite said 7.30 it wouldn’t occur to me that people were already sitting down eating if I arrived at 740

I think it’s rude not to apologise if you are arriving late at a formal event, and even if the host isn’t aware due to the seating plan, I think its polite to apologise to those you are seated with. If you have a tendency to ignore your son’s bad manners, I don’t think you are doing him any favours.

But no I don’t think people should feel forced to eat a starter they don’t want.

They were definitely rude

If it was a bit longer than 10 minutes I'd expect an apology for being late - some posters are being a bit OTT pretending to assume this means falling on your knees and begging forgiveness rather than just a 'sorry we're late,' as they take their seats. But 10 mins is probably just within the normal period for arrivals anyway.

tbh the restaurant was quite speedy having you all seated and starters (and presumably drinks) ordered within 10 minutes - if anything I think you're all ruder for not waiting for them!

Your DH judging her for not having starters is really weird. She might not have wanted one even if she'd arrived "on time". I never have more than 2 courses max when I eat out.

It was bad manners not to apologise to the table. I would have been embarrassed if it was my child and the other guests were aware. The way you’ve described the girlfriend having wine instead of a starter is weird, but I hope suppose you mean that drinks were served and she accepted a drink but no food, not that she ordered wine instead of a starter.

Ten minutes late just needs an informal 'sorry I'm late' to the host and table as they take their seats. As long as it's not a habit, things happen and people understand that. Generally, it is rude to come late without exceptional reason, especially to such a formal event.

You can't expect people to eat just to be polite. I'm on a medically advised diet and would skip starters if it didn't fit for me, going straight to mains. Some people also have smaller appetites. If eating out I often have starter, main, then coffee in place of dessert. It depends how big the portions are and what is available. As long as you don't make a song and dance about it, it's not a big deal.

No, 10 minutes after the seating time is not 'within the normal window'. It was 6.30 for 7. Which means the 'normal window' is 6.30 to 6.50, not 7.10.

And we're not talking about a restaurant with waiters going round taking orders. Not accepting a starter doesn't reduce waste. At a large formal dinner it's all planned, cooked, and ready to go out to the tables before anyone takes a seat.

Ride to arrive early to someone’s house.
Very rude to be late for a formal dinner.
Ruder still not to apologise.

For dinners at a private home yes.

For dinners at an external venue, particularly those where there’s an “event” (speaker, exhibition, etc) then the rules are different.

There will be a running order and if you’re asked to arrive “6:30 for 7pm”, then the expectation is that you’re seated ready to got as 7 (not withstanding this being particularly early for dinner).

I’m genuinely surprised how many people don’t know these basics.

I think most of us know that.
I was replying to the poster who said her relatives like to be early. I have relatives who like to wring their hands and hold their breath if everything isn't running ten to fifteen minutes ahead of schedule and they love to arrive everywhere "nice and early." To be fair I think it is a habit that has come with age and an inability to rush if something unexpected happens. However the unnecessary panic can be draining.

If you don't see the need for an apology, then quite frankly you are a poor excuse for a mother. This was a formal black tie event, not some informal gathering where you turn up in a pair of shorts and flip flops. Your DH is absolutely right.