To ask how many times you have seen anyone wearing a niqab (full face veil revealing eyes) or burqa (full face veil with mesh cover for eyes)?

[Jane379]

I've seen recent talk on UK Reddit about banning them, and I think we should, for several reasons, but I also think in some ways banning is easy but actually integrating people leading a very conservative Muslim lifestyle is much harder, and should be the main discussion.
European countries that have banned found not many women wore them. What about here? Some estimates say 1%-2% of Muslim women, but we don't really know.

I live in S London in an area with quite a few Muslims and have only seen about 10 niqab wearers in my life. Most in more central areas. I've never seen anyone wearing a burqa.

How typical is this?

All the time in London.

I wouldn’t support a ban unless there was clear evidence that Niqab or Burqa wearers supported a ban.

Otherwise, I don’t think the government should be telling anyone what they can or can’t wear.

Id favour a ban on all full face coverings in public, starting with balaclavas.

There's a couple of women in my town who wear a niqab. It makes me so angry for them that they live in families and an unequal culture that think it's acceptable. Imagine never feeling the sun or fresh air, not being able to wear comfortable clothes or exercise easily.

You can parent all you want but it doesn't stop seeing it in the street from being harmful, especially if its on a big and very much growing scale.

Its extremism plain and simple.
Moderate muslims wear no head covering, or the hijab. Extremists enforce or wear the veil.
Personally I don't think extremism should be made acceptable.

It doesn’t bother me in the slightest and I completely support the right of any woman to cover as much of herself as she wishes.

Bless you. I know you're trying to come across as cool with it but you do realise it isn't usually their choice? Men make them cover up. Still cool with it?

I trying to work out the point of this post? and why should it matter to anyone else other than the Muslim women wearing it 🤷🏻‍♀️ perhaps the OP can expand.

Why is it sad?

I love that I live in a diverse city, that my daughter has been exposed to a huge range of religious and cultures, we’ve had great conversations about Judaism, Muslim, Hinduism, Rastafarian's, Buddhists…. The differences in food, language, traditions between various communities from the same general geographic regions, she’s taught herself bits and pieces of several languages so she can communicate with new kids in school or surprise a friend by saying something in their native language.

People have a right to discuss what it happening in their culture. The responses are valid, with various reasonings given from both sides.

It’s not a choice for the majority of women. Yes some may choose to wear them. But why would you when your husband is wearing shorts and a t shirt. I don’t agree with them in the U.K.

Lots of people in the area I work, also lots of people who wear abayas with a scarf and veil.
Their clothing doesn't affect me in any way and I think your idea of policing what people wear is disgusting. What gives you the right to criticise?

The niqab is not just an article of clothing, it’s walking purdah, it’s actually horrific but normalised now. I saw a poor lady trying to walk around with a one eyed niqab (this is an actual thing in north africa). It’s ridiculous and when imams say shit like “if you had a jewel would you show everyone it” then no it’s not a free choice. You are owned by the man in charge of you and he’s the only one who can see your face because otherwise you may cause fitna or other men will know what your husband has. It’s not modesty, it’s a prison they’ ve managed to convince some women to get into. It’s designed to de-humanise women. Fuck that.

I used to think women should have a free choice over this, I genuinely thought it was beyond the pale to tell any woman what to wear. But as I said it’s not just an article of clothing. I remember when everyone thought Kanye West was forcing his wife to walk around oretty much naked, we rightly identified that as abuse. Even if someone accepts the abuse doesn’t mean they are not being oppressed.

I actually had a good think about what it actually means and why it’s so important to some people that women wear them. We reject FGM because we recognise the harm it causes, we should reject the niqab on the same basis.

All the time, in the north of England. Nearly always accompanied by a man, who has no such restrictions placed upon himself

It stops women fully integrating into the community, it stops women communicating fully, it’s controlling, divisive, and had no place in any cultures

God yes. Please can we ban fat shirtless blokes from town centres.

Would also prefer to see fewer teenage arse cheeks out in public.

Not that many locally to where I live but in central London a few niqab wearers.

That's my approach also, and I agree with you. There has to be a security risk to having the whole face and body covered, regardless of the religious/cultural issue. France manages fine with a ban and it has a huge Muslim population.

A ban would be more accepted I think if it was on grounds of security and included balaclavas and similar.

Enough to make counting it a really silly idea.

You're literally saying you're glad your daughter gets to witness the public abuse of women.
I guess it's OK if they're women from a different culture, maybe you see them as lesser than you and fair game?

It"s a chat forum. We can talk about all kinds of stuff. Are you new to online chat forums?

It matters to me because covering a woman's face is a sign of oppression and I don't like to see it in secular Britain. My female Muslim colleagues don't like it eithet.

I'm in Scotland and occasionally see them in Glasgow (mostly the south side).

Conflicted about an outright ban. I could see the argument in a ban for anyone working in a public facing role - not on cultural grounds but rather disability. The incidence of hearing loss in the UK is now estimated to be around 1 in 3 (used to be 1 in 7). Obviously this figure is skewed by an ageing population.

Full face garb makes the person completely unlipreadable. And no, asking them to write things down would not always suffice for deaf/HoH people.

Only a handful of times in Birmingham and I don't go there often. Never saw it when I lived in North Manchester.

I am not keen on banning things like this, but equally not keen on the chances of people being forced to wear such things against their will either.

My inclination is to think this is not a 'me' problem, people who wish to wear them can get on with it and those being forced to do so against their will will have to deal with that however they can, making use of the available resources like anyone else being abused by a husband/partner.

I respect freedom of religion and to let others live their life as they choose, but face covering and niqabs are not ok. It goes way beyond what is prescribed by the Quran (to dress modestly), it’s an extremist, misogynist, and sexist practice.
I wouldn’t ban it because you would only punish the victims and you can’t change social norms by law only.
But I would force every imam in the country to publicly denounce this abuse, disavow the practice, and remind everyone it’s up to women to choose for themselves. I would also offer support and intervention for women and young girls forced to wear it.

I'm in East Anglia too and I've not ever seen one in Cambridge. And I work there.

A ban is going to cause more problems than it resolves. Unless there's evidence that criminals are going around in Islamic dress robbing banks and mugging people, leave it alone.

I couldn't put a number on it, but I saw plenty when I lived in south London, especially when I was working just off Oxford Street.

Since I moved to Sussex, the only times I've seen a woman in a niqab or a burka are when I've been at an airport.

But a woman wearing niqab or a burkha (and all other variants of covering) is expressing Faith in her Deity and her cultural heritage, a bloke in a balaclava is - outside him being sat at a lake at 5am surrounded by boilies and groundbait - is expressing that he doesn't want to be picked up on face recognition/identifiable on CCTV, he's currently up to something illegal or that everybody around him should know that they should be scared of him.

My ex kicked off that he'd been told to take off his crash helmet in a bank when there was a woman wearing a niqab in the queue. Seriously? The odds of a 5'1" woman who probably weighed about 7 stone whipping out a sawn off shotgun and robbing the place is somewhat lower than that of a 6'5" bodybuilder in full black leathers and lid with an illegally tinted visor - if nothing else, they could see more of her than anybody could of him.

In any case, his main objection was that as a man, he had a right to look at women and the outline of their bodies - and they were insulting him by suggesting that he had no such entitlement and preventing him from doing so.