To ask how many times you have seen anyone wearing a niqab (full face veil revealing eyes) or burqa (full face veil with mesh cover for eyes)?

[Jane379]

I've seen recent talk on UK Reddit about banning them, and I think we should, for several reasons, but I also think in some ways banning is easy but actually integrating people leading a very conservative Muslim lifestyle is much harder, and should be the main discussion.
European countries that have banned found not many women wore them. What about here? Some estimates say 1%-2% of Muslim women, but we don't really know.

I live in S London in an area with quite a few Muslims and have only seen about 10 niqab wearers in my life. Most in more central areas. I've never seen anyone wearing a burqa.

How typical is this?

I’m in North Kent and up until recently I very rarely saw anyone wearing a niqab, (lots of hijab) but this last year or so I’m definitely seeing it more - few mums on the school run.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone wearing a burqa.

Sorry for the gap replying..this is another crucial point.

It's obviously a difficult and sensitive topic to study but the question should be asked as to whether this impacts child development at least sometimes.

I wonder if there have been any studies...

Definitely.

Doesn't sound diverse. Surely diverse is when there's a good mix of people

I live in Birmingham and see both daily. Much less when I was growing up. The Muslim girls I was friends with in secondary school never covered their hair, their mothers may have but it was often a loose scarf, no drama if their hair was poking out at the front.

The ones my age now wear hijabs, their primary school aged daughters wear hijabs, their mothers are usually in niqabs. The Muslim community round here has become much more conservative as time has gone on.

I'm torn about a ban. I'd like to ban all face coverings for security reasons. I'd like to ban all tools of oppression. So that's two reasons in favour of a ban.

But then, I don't want even more people telling women what to wear. And also I don't like the unintended consequences, such as oppressed women becoming more isolated as they are not allowed to leave the house.

It's a complicated issue. There's no simple answer.

I've just been in a very cosmopolitan European city. Like the UK, it has been boiling there this weekend.

I saw so many Muslim women in the entire garb (not a burqa) but black robes and headscarves. While their menfolk strut around in shorts and t-shirts. Arseholes. They come to the West for a better life but leave their women to have the same sort of life they'd have had in Syria or wherever. I find it disgusting especially in this heat and after this weekend, I would ban it. There's absolutely no reason to allow women to be treated that way (and no, they don't choose it). Headscarves are fine. The rest is not fine.

I don't disagree with this. But I just can't get past refugee/migrant men being able to wear Western clothes and women not.

That doesn't surprise me - many women compete for the approval of men.

I don't think it was the approval of men though- it was more the approval of other women in the cases described. Men's approval certainly does come into it though.

Women are their own worst enemy. Look at the thread about bra straps in public. We just have to make a nasty remark instead of just living and letting live.

Live and let live religious extremism while throwing the women of these communities under the bus?
Live and let live like saying I should be reeducated?
Women are their worst enemy, indeed, thanks for admitting it at last.

You are operating under the assumption that every single one of these women is wearing the niqab against their will. That's a bold assumption.

Nobody is saying you should be reeducated, you're making that up.

You wanted to send me work for the NHS so I could learn what it was to work and socialise with Muslim people because you assumed i didn’t know any.

That’s called more reeducation than live and let live, darling.

But self-reflection (like real knowledge and understanding of the topic) doesn’t seem to be your strong suit.

As for your “it’s ok to let them be oppressed because not all of them realise they are and some are even ok with it”, another gem.

Women are their worst enemy, some more than others.

You're opposed to people having the freedom to express their faith then. Got it. I don't particularly like extremes of any faith, but the difference between you and me is that I don't want to ban them. Religion is a choice. You can choose to walk away from indoctrination. And ultimately, all faiths in their extremes are about oppressing women. You could argue that it is only the liberal extremes of faith that do not do this.

And another word salad of poorly mastered notions, erroneous assumptions and total misrepresentations.

But that’s your specialty. With a total lack of accountability.

Not very often, perhaps a couple of times per year in my small northern city. As a city it’s not particularly diverse but I do live quite close to two mosques.

About a year ago I had a meeting with a woman and her new husband and she was wearing a niqab. My colleague had met her previously (before marriage) and she didn’t cover her face then but I got the feeling it was her choice rather than her husband’s. She removed the lower part of the niqab during the meeting but as soon as a male colleague came into the office, she covered up again.

That's just your opinion. You do a pretty good word salad yourself, but I have thus far refrained from commenting on it. It's sad when all someone has is a slew of patronising non responses.