To ask how many times you have seen anyone wearing a niqab (full face veil revealing eyes) or burqa (full face veil with mesh cover for eyes)?

[Jane379]

I've seen recent talk on UK Reddit about banning them, and I think we should, for several reasons, but I also think in some ways banning is easy but actually integrating people leading a very conservative Muslim lifestyle is much harder, and should be the main discussion.
European countries that have banned found not many women wore them. What about here? Some estimates say 1%-2% of Muslim women, but we don't really know.

I live in S London in an area with quite a few Muslims and have only seen about 10 niqab wearers in my life. Most in more central areas. I've never seen anyone wearing a burqa.

How typical is this?

This can’t really apply to Muslims who were born here though.

Everyone in the UK, born here or not, with a passport or not should abide to this simple rule: British law comes first, British society comes first, British values come first.

Muslim religion is significant in the UK solely because of recent immigration. It is not an established British tradition.

Western civilisation has fought for centuries to get rid of the dominance of the Church and make it a personal matter of faith rather than a political system.

Accepting as equal a foreign religion who has largely not gone through the same evolution is taking us all back to dark times of obscurantism.

I m going back to work, have all a lovely time calling me names.

I didn’t think Mumsnet would be your bag, Tommy.

Niqab: fairly often. I used to work with a couple of women who dressed this way (central London) and my daughter used to live in East London so when I visited her it was a common sight.

Burka: not very often at all. Occasionally seen in the street in London, but I have never known anyone personally.

How is a Muslim who is born in Britain not part of society?

Is Judaism equally not a “foreign religion”?

I agree. The idea that it’s an empowering choice that women make with absolutely no outside influence either culturally or from family traditions/expectations,
is just nonsense.
One of the saddest thing I ever saw was on a beach in Spain a few years ago. A family of four. Dad and kids were in shorts, bare chests, swimming and playing ball.
Mum was in full covering on a boiling hot day.
Just awful.

Coventry and Birmingham have plenty of people wearing full covering.

I've had female students living with me from the Middle East and they put on their covering (never face or eyes) to travel home. The find that it is better for them with Middle Eastern men staring at them if they don't and making them feel very uncomfortable. They don't wear full covering here in uk as they feel comfortable without - but have always kept hair covered and wrists and ankles

Judaism poses no threat to western society.
Hence the term Judeo-Christian

Basically a Niqab should not be allowed to be worn anywhere where a motorcycle helmet would not be allowed to be worn.

You sincerely made me laugh, you poor thing.

The Leftie bingo card (not too many holes to punch, it is a very limited repertoire) has almost been filled for today: Deflection, Tommy Robinson, Racism.

Fascism still missing but I am sure you will be able to fit that one in, you never care much about reality, knowledge, truth or tolerance, a bit of force teaming or spurious allegations is all you need usually, should be easy peasy for such high calibre thinkers like yourselves.

Every Saturday at the car boot there’s a couple of women in niqabs.
Tbh, I have no problem with a generalised ban on face coverings in public, but they need to be generalised. Niqabs are one thing, but it also needs to include face coverings at protests (if you have any courage in your convictionsa d you’re not thee to cause trouble, you shouldn’t be hiding) as well as balaclavas and pulled up snoods, which are the headgear of choice for snatch and grab phone thieves, young county lines e-bike riders and illegal motorbike riders in my city.

At the maternity clinic today I saw a woman wearing a niqab. In Scotland so not a common occurrence but it did make me feel kind of sad. She had her husband and her toddler there who obviously doesn’t like the mum wearing it (presumably she doesn’t inside the house) and kept trying to pull it away from her face. The dad’s response was just to hold the toddler away from the mum which just resulted in screaming for ages.

Quite a few in the city.

I can only hope they are wearing it through deliberate choice, not religious and cultural pressure, especially when the men and boys accompanying them are cool and comfortable in t shirts and shorts.

@inkognitha

British society comes first, British values come first.

What does that society look like? What are those values you speak of?

I’m English, as is my entire family tree, but from reading your posts I’d guess that my values are wildly different to yours.

Niqab fairly often, but they often appear to be (possibly Saudi) tourists. Burqa very rarely but I definitely have seen them occasionally, especially in London.

A beautiful Italian lady that works for me has married an Indian Muslim man and has adopted the hijab and abaya. Her husband didn’t make her, he doesn’t care one way or another.

She has chosen to do it and she is converting from Catholicism to Islam out of free choice as she has said that a lot of the religion resonates with her.

She is enjoying wearing the hijab/abaya and has loved not being subject to the male gaze.

In our team we’ve quizzed her a lot about this as it’s such a radical change for her but she is very happy. It’s not something I could see myself doing, but each to their own.

And Christianity…

Agree - if we want homegrown religion we need to go back to paganism, with KC as Chief Druid.

So no face covering....

I think you need a lesson in both history AND theology. All three of the main religions originated in the Middle East so ALL are “foreign” to the UK in equal measure. Christianity grew out of Judaism and they broadly share similar beliefs as a result.

“Judeo Christian” as a term gained prominence in the US in the 30s basically as a way to fight fascism. They’re ALL Abrahamic and monotheistic religions and Islam shares many similarities, including respect for Jesus and they share many morals.

This, definitely. I feel like online at least, quite a few people call for a ban with a vague belief that it will help women or promote integration : hopefully yes, but it needs to be considered properly.

Not yet anyway! But my point is that women do choose to wear these clothes. Just because we don’t understand it, that doesn’t mean it’s oppression.

But I was also replying to a lot of the PP who were saying that even the hijab is a form of oppression.

Genuinely wouldn't be able to tell you, it's not something I notice. I guess a few a day based on where I live and my route too and from work?

It absolutely does depend on where you live. Maybe not so many in the Cotswolds or Falmouth as there are in Small Heath, Birmingham.

Some might say that allowing children and young teens wear western skimpy clothes is abuse, sexualising children, wearing crop tops and skin tight shorts, teenagers with their skirts rolled up to the arse, breasts on show, the teenagers and younger girls only want to dress like that because of the adults, we blindside them with the beauty industry from a very young age.
Neither is perfect. I’m not foolish enough into thinking our girls aren’t brainwashed by society too.

🫣🤣