Men... are u okay? What is the problem?

[LavenderSkiesxo]

I think this will be removed / deleted but i am not saying anything untrue. Or factually incorrect. But here goes...

Since having my little girl just over a year ago I have started resenting men. I dont know why as my partner isnt bad. I just see them in a whole new light.

Firstly, years ago women couldn't vote and it was the done thing that they would look after the children and home and men were the providers. But, many women (not all!) Now have careers, go to work, earn their own money. We can now vote. Aswell as have a career, many women still take on majority of the housework and childcare. Not because men always refuse but they just dont, we do things automatically. Men, just dont think.

The other day I was driving to visit family and saw a car with its hazards on in the slip road... they have broken down i thought. Nope. A man was standing behind his car pissing. It got me thinking, ive never seen a woman pissing at the side of the road. We just wouldn't, so how do men find themselves in this situation? My dog can hold its bladder until "walkies" so what's the issue?

I read that men commit like 91% of murders, most rapes are men and men mostly abuse their partners. Men are more likely to commit suicide, men dont open up and speak about their feelings.. some men transition to become "women" and fight to enter women spaces. I know women transition to men but you dont hear about them!

I just dont understand. Men.. what is the actual problem??? Apart from sperm, what is your actual purpose??

The posts on here today.. oh my man was messaging a coworker inappropriately and he cant get her moved as it'll be suspicious... WHAT!! Nah he has played his part, otherwise it would be as simple as, hey HR this person is being inappropriate and its making me uncomfortable, here are the messages 🤣🤣

Or the other one, my man spent lots of money on my credit card and refusing to pay up... WHAT🤣🤣

What the fuck, we all play our part to with enabling such shit behaviour.

Where did I say that? The vast majority of men aren't rapists and murderers. But we don't know which ones are, and all of them are someone's son. And even they weren't until they were.

I’ve been very lucky in having a wonderful grandfather, father and husband. All have always encouraged me to be the best I can and follow what I want to do, with never any suggestion of it being different because I was a girl. I find it very draining listening to women bringing down men as though they are all the same.

Yes, I’ve met some awful men, but I’ve also met plenty awful women. I have a son and have raised him to be respectful and have good manners towards all people, not just because they are male or female.

I’m genuinely sorry some women feel this way, but it hasn’t been my experience of men.

I remember police giving a talk at my kids school about staying safe. Apparently the big issue for the sixth form girls was being glassed in local pubs/clubs . So no it isn't all about bad men.

I think it depends on the set up of the station. This particular station it is safer to stay by the entrance because you have to cross the bridge to get to my platform and then you’re a bit stuck if you feel uncomfortable or threatened.

I was in a Facebook group it was a men only group, the focus was around men's support for mental health but I had to leave because many members of the group were very toxic towards women and it was pretty awful, sure I've seen some anti men posts on mumsnet but nothing on the level of what I witnessed on that Facebook group.

Many people's views men with be based around their life experience the way men have behaved towards them their family members or friends.

My own childhood experiences makes it extremely difficult to trust men, I won't go into details but I've posted a few times previously about it. And I think as well that when you get the NAMALT brigade, it the view of the person who have been harmed by men for that person it minimizes the trauma rhey have suffered.

Sure there are nice men, but for many that's few and far between, you only have to read social media or switch on the news to find s story where men and boys have done something to women or girls. And as a man I agree men's behavior is getting worse and can see why there is a lot of anger directed towards men especially when they have previous trauma from it.

You mean by other girls? I know there are some bad women out there too but not in the same proportion as bad men.

Exactly. I’m sure the OP would change her tune if she needed life saving treatment and shock horror it was given by a man.

True... but maybe have a look at when women were finally 'allowed' to have their own bank accounts... 1975 FFS!
These things didnt happen by accident- these are hard won rights that we shouldn't even have had to fight for.
It saddens me that those rights are taken for granted.

That's not how that statistic works Lavender.

If 91% of crimes are committed by men, it does not mean 91% of the male population have committed crimes.

It means if there are 10 crimes, 9 of them have been committed by a man, 1 by a woman. If you have the 10 criminals in front of you, 91% are men, and 9% is a woman.

What you're saying is if there are 10 (random) men, 9 of them (91% of them) have done a crime - which is a completely different statistic; you mean 91% of criminals are men.

And even that isn't right, because it might be that men do a lot of crimes but there's more crime per man e.g. George, who has done 9 crimes is only one man, but he would account for 90% of the crime in the example above.

Don’t have a son will you ffs OP.

Thats shocking! I didnt know that.

How many generations ago isn't really important, the point is that it happened so long ago as for the OP to be far removed from ever having had to experience it.

World war II was in the 40's even more recently yet do we still hate the Germans and Japanese ? It's like teaching your kids who are in school today to hate them because of what they did 70 years ago.

Things move on, we learn and develop from them; Of course we aren't supposed to forget them but the OP is bringing up suffrage like men are still doing this to them. They're brining up a point that is irrelevant to their modern day argument.

Yes that's what they were warning them about. I assume this wasn't a rare event as they were serious about the warning I'm not sure id be worrying about statistics if I'd been disfigured by another teenage girl.

There's less than 100 years between the 5 living generations of my family.

You'll notice i'd already addressed bank accounts before you responded; I'm not ignorant to it.

I saw a few pics of female reform voters pissing in the street on that march the other day. Do they count?

If it makes you feel any better, many studies find that men and women engage in domestic violence at equal levels, lesbians are much more likely to split up than male-female marriages, and young babies are more likely to die at the hands of their mothers than anyone else.

I’ve been reading a bit about the suffragettes recently. From what I can see, they fought for years while men in power told them they were too weak and stupid. And then the first world war happened. And women showed ably that they could work, contribute, solve problems, as well as running their families. So it became untenable to say ‘you can’t vote because you’re too hysterical’. I wonder if it hadn’t been for the war, how many more decades would it have taken? And even then, they only let rich women over 30 vote, it was longer still for all women.

100yrs is a trifle in human history. It’s really not that long ago. In some places in the world girls and women remain the property of their fathers and husbands. And even in this country, there are a good many men whom I’m sure if they could have their way without hassle, would remove the vote from us again. I wouldn’t be so sure this could never happen to us - it’s unlikely and we would put up a fight like our ancestors, but we didn’t expect the way women’s rights have been dismantled in the uk in the last decade.

OP I think becoming a mum makes all of this clear. Yes there are plenty of good men, but there are more who hate us.

I often think about what would the world be like if it was just woman. I think it would be a very different world, so different that its hard to imagine. I think there would be less technology/cars as thats all driven by men's needs/wants/curiosity/laziness. Also medicine would be different.

Women: careers, childcare, emotional labour, housework, survival skills.

Men: “pull over, Steve, I need a wee.”

91 per cent of men commit crimes? What’s your source for this?

Or are you one of those people who hear a statistic such as as 91 per cent of sexual assaults are carried out by males and wrongly translate that to mean 91 per cent males commit sexual assault.

Generally speaking, globally etc then yes, I think there’s a problem with male violence and many many people, including myself at points in my life, are unable and/or unwilling to see it and then there’s ones who can’t participate in such discussions without making it “not all men” “women do it too” “not the men I know” “as the mother of a son i worry he’ll be judged like this”

Im not sure you’re engaging in good faith by saying 91 per cent commit crimes though and it’ll make people not engage in good faith in return.

I think there's a line between validating (there are men who have done dreadful things) and enabling (there are almost no good or safe men) traumatised points of view. Validation is important but is it helpful to enforce people in a binary point of view where half the population are dangerous animals, to be managed at best and avoided where possible? Does that make the world better and safer? Or more divided and more hopeless.

Yes it is very concerning. I was bullied at school by girls so certainly am not a supporter of all women regardless. I would definitely avoid eye contact of any aggressive female in my vicinity. (Sorry to use the word female but seems appropriate in this context). I was more saying in regard to navigating the world at large.

But you dismissed her argument with mentioning generations. You are the one who brought that up as a reason why she should forget about it.

It’s also interesting that you mention “teaching our kids to hate Germans and Japanese”.

What on earth makes you say that?

Knowing what happened in the past is nothing to do with “teaching hate” - it is about understanding the past so we can understand how certain imbalances occur or how some unfair structures came to be in place, and hopefully by talking about it honestly and accurately, we and the generations after us, can avoid making the same mistakes.

Interesting you skipped over colonialism which is actually still the blight of many, many countries even today. But you dont want to have that conversation.

Back to OP’s point, let’s say the Suffragettes gave us the right to work. Do you have anything to say about the gender-pay gap?

Although the OP’s references are out of date to you, the impact of them is what I believe she was referring to. Therefore it is in fact relevant.

An MN recently linked to this thread on Pistonheads:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=141&h=0&i=260&t=362263
It's horrific. Men talking about using (ie paying to rape) young prostitutes, many in very poor countries. I was so upset reading it. These men saw no element of humanity in these girls. No concern for their wives or girlfriends, some of whom will be undoubtedly pregnant so they are putting their baby at risk also. I'd much prefer if men just had a bitch about women than behaved like the men on the above thread. The Very odd man who posted to say he wouldn't partake, on a stag do for example, also made it clear they wouldn't call it out.
I don't hate men. But I hate an awful lot of their behaviours and I do think they are way more likely to behave in abhorrent ways then women.
My dad was horrible, his dad was horrible, my ex husbands dad was horrible, his dad was horrible. By horrible I mean extremely abusive. My son is a young man and is a delight; I really really hope he remains that way.