Male hospital staff

[ToadRage]

I don't really know how i feel about this or if I'm just being a bit precious. I had an appointment for a transvaginal ultrasound a couple of weeks ago. I was a bit shocked to find the sonographer was a man. A female nurse was present and she did all the talking, he barely said a word to me. I have had ultrasounds before but they have always been done by women. He was professional and nothing out of the ordinary happened but I felt a bit awkward as I haven't had a man down there except my husband in 20+ years, not even a male doctor. Am I wrong in thinking I should have been told it was going to be done by a man, maybe given the option to request a woman or AIBU?

Absolutely! That's a huge issue, I think - the voyeurism and behaviour that's clearly sexually motivated, but there's no smoking gun to prove it was.

Another example: I linked an old thread upthread about a woman who had a TVU and was wondering about complaining, because the sonographer placed his hand so that his pinky finger was just resting against her bum crack, and he was moving it against her, sort of stroking her, which (iirc) made her paranoid that the way he was moving the wand was also sexually driven rather than necessary.

I'm not sure what she did in the end, but to feel sexually violated like that, doubt yourself, be unsure but still feel gross and dirty, and know that it's possible he might have been getting off on it but there's probably nothing you can do...women shouldn't have to put up with that when they seek medical care.

I'm sure there are many, many sexual predators in the NHS who have never been caught because - as you say - they're careful enough to remain within the bounds of plausible deniability. I don't think women should be expected to have to expose themselves to that kind of experience.

I see Cornish Daughter has already provided it. Thanks!

Haha one must have slipped through the net - they sneak them in from time to time.

Heres another one.

Conclusion: This systematic review and meta-analysis suggests that patients treated by female surgeons have a lower mortality compared with those treated by male surgeons.

From your previous comment “but it’s tiny, there’s no disparity at all in fatality.”

How do you think they measure mortality rate??

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38726676/

Having had children in hospital for surgery I always found the male doctors kinder and better at dealing with the children. I wondered if women were more likely to be pushed towards paeds and if men did it they were more committed to it. One lovely doctor sticks in my mind, about 6'6" and built like the proverbial brick outhouse. My son was very upset after his previous treatment with a young woman who had a very poor bedside manner and this man was brilliant with him and in a couple of minutes they were like old mates. It was a pattern I'd seen before.

Another lovely surgeon was the one who was waiting for me when I came out after seeing child anaesthetised and he was waiting for me to tell me not to worry as he promised to look after her.

I've spent too much time on children's wards.

I do understand the risks, I was sexually assaulted by a doctor and I wasn't old enough to even understand what happened but I have to be honest about all my experiences not just one.

Oh yes the prep is great fun. The ham sandwich and cup of tea afterwards was still amazing.

I'm just trying to show that it isn't 'careless surgery because it's a female patient'

I didn’t suggest it was. I’m sure most surgeons are diligent and dedicated to their patients.

However, a quick theory off the top of my head - do the figures in increased mortality of female patients correspond with the number of surgeons who think it’s ok to sexually assault their female colleagues in theatre?

One surgeon can operate on a lot of patients and it wouldn’t take many of them to affect the statistics.

And it isn't that 32% of women die

How do you think they measure mortality rates?

We found that patients treated by female surgeons experienced a lower postoperative mortality compared with patients treated by male surgeons

(From the previously linked study.)

That fucking drink! It’s the worst part of the whole thing.

Read the paper. It’s in relation to patients as a whole, not specific to men on women treatment as you frame it.

You’re either deliberately misrepresenting or misunderstanding the facts.

You’re misunderstand the stats. 200 is an in time snapshot of capacity, not a representation of the total midwife population size over which the incidents happened.

Please try to better understand facts and figures that you’re using

This

And it isn't that 32% of women die

How do you think they measure mortality rate

(I'd read on a health forum, in a discussion based around these statistics, a post claiming that 32% of all women who have been operated on by a man die as a result. Which is obviously a gross misunderstanding of the statistics.
I assume you don't have that misunderstanding)

You can't assume a woman will do these procedures and need to ask for a woman beforehand. The hospital asking if you mind in advance would muddy the waters.

Thanks for calling out another case of misrepresentation of the actual facts by @CornishDaughteroftheDawn

Not only that but the poster seems to think that the answer is to prevent men from entering womens’ health care, but on closer examination of the reasons behind womens’ outcomes being poorer in the hands of male HCP’s, is not because of incompetence or lack of clinical skills, it seems that pre conceived bias and poor communication skills when relating to female patients are the main culprits.

So surely the most obvious solution is to rethink training in these areas to improve listening skills, appreciation of the specific needs of women in an healthcare setting and heighten communication skills. Simply preventing men from entering these areas of health care will inevitably have the knock on effect of preventing women from accessing clinical excellence if the main consideration is the sex of the practitioner and not their clinical skills.

This is the NHS, if you want to choose pay private.

women with trauma from sexual assault etc excluded, the fact that only your husband has seen your foof is a weak excuse

So what's preventing all women who don't want to see male HCPs from claiming to have trauma related to past sexual assault?

If you see the direction I'm going with this...

There’s nothing preventing that but hopefully most people wouldn’t be so twatty to lie about that to get what they prefer in a free struggling system

The outcomes study is an interesting one, and you could definitely use it to make the case for more female surgeons (which I’m obviously for, who wouldn’t be?) But since we can’t produce surgeons overnight, it seems pretty important to look at the underlying reasons for those outcomes (which are about relational differences between female patients and male physicians).

Some women are and maybe always will be uncomfortable with men treating them. Unfortunately at the moment those women will wait longer for treatment if they refuse appointments with men. (I presume the study controlled for wait times, can’t remember off the top of my head.)

But a larger proportion of women are ambivalent about being treated by men and scaremongering about the (important but small) risk of sexual harm is only going to make more women afraid of being treated by men.

Sure, in an ideal world everyone could choose exactly who they wanted. But while they can’t, what do you actually want to see done to make things better?

Is there a high turnover in midwifery, amongst men? Apparently only 144 are currently practising in the UK right now. I found 2 offences in 2022, and 1 in 2016, so at least 2 happened at the same time, so potentially 2 out of 150 or so?

It's frustrating that the NHS doesn't provide any specific data on the number of male (or female) midwives that have been convicted of sex offences.

Personally, I think it's a bit 'twatty' to tell women that they have to accept a man putting things inside their vagina if they want medical treatment that involves such exams.

If people are willing to wait a little longer for appointments to see a female HCP, why would that be such an issue?

This, and also a campaign to give women patients the language and confidence to advocate for themselves. I think some of this is generational, and is changing, but understanding what should happen, one’s rights and service standards etc is so important. We’re all very grateful for the NHS, as we should be, but also all own it (first line of the NHS constitution, it belongs to all of us). There are so many worse problems in the system than male practitioners, so we have to pick battles. For me many of the issues could be improved by patients/families feeling able to advocate for themselves, and even for each other.

How strange. The usual position is on your side knees up and the person is behind you . Why would they reach over you to access your rear? That's like filling your car with petrol and having to pull the hose over the car 🤷‍♀️

No it isn’t. I was at 6 o’clock and the person was at 11 o’clock. I was moved into several positions throughout the procedure. Why is there such an insistence that I’m lying?

I did this and was given basically a tent which fastened round my neck and flowed down and hid everything. No catheter though. It's a special toilet which is see through and catches everything to measure. I felt like Queen Victoria sitting on the throne. He didn't watch me.

Did you have your knees up? I don't understand your numbers.