Male hospital staff

[ToadRage]

I don't really know how i feel about this or if I'm just being a bit precious. I had an appointment for a transvaginal ultrasound a couple of weeks ago. I was a bit shocked to find the sonographer was a man. A female nurse was present and she did all the talking, he barely said a word to me. I have had ultrasounds before but they have always been done by women. He was professional and nothing out of the ordinary happened but I felt a bit awkward as I haven't had a man down there except my husband in 20+ years, not even a male doctor. Am I wrong in thinking I should have been told it was going to be done by a man, maybe given the option to request a woman or AIBU?

My TVU was in regards to investigating suspected appendicitis and ruling out other issues (it was in fact appendicitis, and I needed surgery), but I would have been unable to undergo the TVU if it hadn't been a female HCP, due to a history of CSA and rape.

Sometimes it's not about being 'well enough'.

I think it's very sad that women can be traumatised by men raping or abusing them, and then are expected to be re-traumatised by being accepting intimate medical care from other men.

(And of course, there are reasons other than trauma for women to want a female HCP too.)

That's not the point I'm making.

Wow!

If anyone wants to request female staff they can, that’s perfectly valid for any reason and can and will be accommodated, though may mean waiting longer. What I think is unreasonable is to refuse the appointment on the day, having not made that request at an earlier stage. That’s taking a space from someone else.

ETA: Also a survivor of SA, so I sympathise but don’t assume all of us feel the same about medical treatment. It’s invasive, certainly, but I can’t think of anything less ‘intimate’.

I literally said it's an uncomfortable and vulnerable position to be in, and I don't even carry the same trauma as you. I also said providers should be understanding if women express a preference. I also said 'men shouldn't be tarred', not 'everyone here is tarring men with this brush'.

We are saying basically the same thing, you've just picked one part of my comment and gone to town calling it ridiculous. I wasn't attacking you for your very valid feelings.

I'm really sorry but I do disagree with you. There is a very likely chance in any healthcare situation that the doctor, nurse or technician is going to be male. You shouldn't need to be told, if you have a preference you should express it.

People really need to advocate for themselves instead of expecting other people to be mind readers. You would tell your healthcare provider if you were allergic to something, or had a phobia of needles/tight spaces etc. Why not just tell them you need a female provider for intimate procedures?

How about male doctors when giving birth? I had terrible births the first two times- shoulder dystocia and forceps with one, retained placenta and huge postpartum haemorrhage with the next. Both were assisted by men and I didn’t even question it because it was an emergency so I didn’t care at all. Also know males were present during my c-sections, again just didn’t care.

Human error occurs; assuming that a TVU sonographer would be female doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I'm sure OP will make sure to ask next time. By 'intimate' I just mean, 'anything that involves nakedness, or the sexual organs of the body'. 'Sexually invasive' also works, but I'm sure people will take issue with that phrasing as well.

I'm also not assuming anyone wouldn't be fine with it. I'm simply pointing out why a woman might not be okay with it, as some people don't seem to understand that.

Good for you?

I imagine everyone has different levels of comfort and discomfort. Personally, I had only female midwives, and while my surgeon for a medically necessary c section was male, I also had a panic attack and was an absolute state on the way into theatre, sobbing and nearly hyperventilating, and wouldn't have been able to go through with it without my DH there to try to calm me.

Everyone is different!

My response was to the pp who said they’d walk out, not the OP.

I understand what you mean by intimate, I’m just providing an alternate view. I think everyone does understand why some women would not be ok (I don’t recall seeing a. Post that didn’t anyway). What people are less understanding of is the rather surprising belief that any form of healthcare might be provided by a single sex, and/or the failure to make any particular preference known well ahead of time. It’s reasonable to have a preference but unreasonable to keep it a secret until the day of.

Yes, it is rare and I've experienced so many more men who were completely professional than the one. Not the only man who has crossed lines with me, but the only medical one. He was caught out in the end is all I will say about that one.

I'm not that keen on the whole internal probe thing anyway, though reluctantly accept it if I'm comfortable with the person doing it. So far I've only had women assigned to me for that. I've had a breast ultrasound by a man (I was surprised it was a man assigned to it) but he was completely professional. While not my preference, it got the job done.

My gastroenterologist is a male. I feel very comfortable with him.

There have been pp on this thread who have been quite scathing, one saying such things as:

"By sexualising the whole thing, it makes sense why some of you are so weird.
What's next? you are going to compare a dental exam with a blow job too?"

Personally, I think of TVUs as being in the same class as mammograms, and I would probably expect a female HCP too. And I did get a female HCP for mine.

As I've said, I think it makes sense for people to have their preferences marked on their notes, so there's no need to even ask. But yes, people should be encouraged to speak up and advocate for themselves too.

Absolutely! Don't make a fuss. Men are all awfully nice and professional and never motivated by sex. This has been proved time and time again throughout history. You should put up with any feelings of discomfort for the sake of the smooth running of the NHS.

On the plus side when my teenage daughter had to see a physiotherapist because of pelvic issues and she was offered the option of having a woman at the time of booking. Seems like quite a good way of dealing with it.

I missed that one, thanks for pointing it out. I think it is important to avoid drawing parallels, the process should minimise nakedness etc but inevitably procedures like TVU can feel uncomfortable and triggering for some.

I would have thought it would be recorded on notes, good point.

I was replying to someone who said they’d walk out if a male doctor came in. I think that’s pretty silly.

Patients are entitled to express a preference in advance for a same sex practitioner, and for that preference to be respected, but if they don’t express that then no-one will know. Nobody needs to put up with feelings of discomfort if they have the presence of mind to ask beforehand.

I can guarantee that no one would care in the slightest that she didn't want to see a male Doctor

Of course you can’t guarantee what others thought in that situation. You have no idea how any of them felt. The fact that you wouldn’t care or notice what the medical staff did is irrelevant.

Its a shitty way to treat a self conscious young woman coming forward for what is at the very least an unpleasant experience even if its the sensible choice. We have a significant problem in the UK with persuading women to come forward for screening. A big factor in that reluctance is the way women are treated when they do come forward and the way they are rubbished when expressing discomfort or fear.

It happens all the time on these threads - a woman will describe an experience which may have been just embarrassing and uncomfortable or downright dangerous and half the thread will tell her to shut up and be grateful for piss poor care and that if she wants female centred care she’s a bigot, stupid or both.

Medical misogyny comes as much from women hectoring each other in this way as from the men who just sit back and laugh at us.

I had this, I was offered a chaperone but declined. I was just wanting to get the scan over with so I could find out if I was hopefully having a viable pregnancy. He told me to get into position covered with a sheet and didn't need to take look

6 months later I had a male Dr having a rummage around assessing me for preterm labour and again the following week. Although there was a female nurse present for both

For me in the moment I was more preoccupied with the reasons for them being at the business end than giving it too much thought about them being male

“It happens all the time on these threads - a woman will describe an experience which may have been just embarrassing and uncomfortable or downright dangerous and half the thread will tell her to shut up and be grateful for piss poor care and that if she wants female centred care she’s a bigot, stupid or both.”

Absolutely this.^

It’s appalling that women who would prefer having such an intimate exam from a female are being vilified, by other women.

That's well and good until you look up and notice that they did the internal examination without wearing gloves (and that was just one of the things that happened to me).

I acknowledge that was just one doctor and the vast majority are entirely professional.

I had seen them put the gloves on and they explained what they were going to do including them apologising that they couldn't use any lube during the internal exam as it compromised the preterm labour swab.

I watched what they were doing just as I would had they been a female member of staff. I'm the sort of person that watches when I get injections or have blood taken to see what they are actually doing! I'm just didn't pay much attention to the body at the end of the hands!

You can't see their hands once they are behind the sheet that token covers you and they can take them off. A thing you might not notice till after the fact. Don't know what kind of contortionist you'd have to be to watch that sort of thing.

I was pointing out that the tarring comment is ridiculous because no one is tarring anyone. I stand by that. I never said anything about everyone or brushes or anything like that. It's the word 'tarring' I take issue with as you're implying people are accusing men of things. They are not.

To clarify for people who seem to have comprehension difficulties around this, I do not believe a male HCP will assault me. I literally have no concern whatsoever about that (I understand others do). The reason I don't want a male to do an vaginal ultrasound is because being in a dim room with a man I don't know penetrating me, with anything, is a horror situation for me. It doesn't matter how kind or nice or lovely he is. It doesn't matter how good his intentions.

Well I knew that they had gloves on when they went under the sheet. Still had them on when they asked for the speculum and then the swab for the preterm labour test and then for the infection test and then when they removed the speculum so yes I didn't see exactly what they were doing but their hands were never out of my sight for more than about 15-20 seconds at a time

Your feelings aren't wrong, nor would they be wrong if you felt differently. I totally get how you feel. I have been assaulted by one male doctor, but I don't expect men in those kind of positions to assault me. It's just one, out of so many more I have seen who are very professional and some I have been very comfortable with. I don't worry if I'm seeing a male professional but there are some situations I feel more comfortable with a woman. That said, I had a male GP for years who I felt very comfortable with for everything.

I'm not comfortable with anyone putting a probe up there but, if given the option, I'll choose a woman. Really just because I prefer someone with the same biology who has the same parts and more understanding of that experience.

Last TVU I had I couldn't help but feel that if men had to have them, they'd have found another way by now.

Well, you are lucky to have never had a different experience and obviously any woman who is assaulted by a male doctor, such as myself, was just not vigilant enough. Unlike you. Their fault.