Is Andy Burnham reasonable to say only a small minority of women object to men being in their toilets? YABU he's right, YANBU he's wrong *titled tweaked by MNHQ at OP's request*

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15830845/Andy-Burnham-men-identify-women-use-female-toilets.html

'I don't think that's a majority view. I think it's a minority view and quite a small minority view, actually. But it is a view so you can't completely ignore it. Possibly they might be women who have experienced male violence at some point in their life. I don't know, that's one way of looking at it.'

Ha ha ha, nice try. The key words being "at school" (around 50 years ago).

Not a couple of years ago, as in AB's case.

No, I do not support Reform.

He's unreasonable to be making a sweeping statement about what women want without reference to his evidence of that.
What is he basing it on? Actual instances of objection? Surveys of women asked if in theory they would object? Or just what he 'thinks'?
I genuinely don't know if he's right or not, I do know it's not right to claim something as though it's right without backing it up.

oooo another post shaming women for discussing something that is very important to their day-to-day reality.

The reason that these moderate politicians are falling is because they cannot support laws based in reality rather than political games.

Incredibly, I am capable of holding both right wing and left wing politicians to high standards.

Exactly. The threat of male violence/sexual violence affects all women, not just the significant percentage of us who actually experience it.

Burnham’s comments are a very telling insight into his total lack of empathy for women and girls, and how our life experiences differ from those of men and boys.

It’s always very striking how these men who are overflowing with compassion for their poor, tortured brethren have none at all for those they evidently regard as not quite fully human in the same way men are.

I think it’s very important.

’But Farage’ is just the latest be kind and shut up.

There is no current requirement to 'dress as a woman' to use women's toilets, so it's not clear why that would be an additional requirement for men. As I understand it the policy would be that anyone should be able to use any toilet without challenge.

Even if you don't care who is in the next cubicle when you go to the toilet, can you understand that some women do?

I think most women would object to men using the ladies toilets, similarly men crudely dressed in women's clothes while being obviously male. However, if they are discreet transmen who genuinely look like women most women wouldn't even know and that is pretty much impossible to police.

In sports biological males shouldn't compete in female only categories and that can be easily enforced.

I agree with him. Me and every cisgender woman I know are not the slightest bit bothered about where transgender or non binary people go to the toilet. I’m way more worried about actual threats to women and girls, particularly threats to their reproductive rights and a growing right wing movement with links to places like the Heritage Foundation that are fuelling and funding misogyny and transphobia. I’m quite frankly sick of the very real VAWG being weaponised in culture wars, especially being an actual abuse survivor myself.

Is that statistically proven? I’m not convinced the majority of women care. The MN view is very skewed.

Women wanting single sex spaces to remain so is ‘right wing’ now is it? Thinking men can’t become women by chucking on a dress makes us all Reform voters? Oh my sides.

And why is it only on Mumsnet where people assume women can’t care about more than one issue, at the same time.

Someone posted the stats already.

"transmen" are female, but I realise you probably made a genuine mistake here because the terminology is deliberately confusing.

Totally agree with you about sports.

Why don't you think it's valid for women to want their legal rights to single sex spaces upheld?

No one I know thinks a man in a dress is a woman

@DoughnutDreamer TBH, I think everyone, deep down, knows perfectly well that men aren't women, and never can be. I find it staggering that this is ever controversial

Cisgender = get in the bin.

Totally agree.

Honestly, I never understood why he was so popular to start with. Maggie Oliver has a lot to say about him and all he didn't do when she flagged grooming gangs to him.

He's clearly not interested in women's rights or welfare at all.

I'm in the small minority then as I don't any men in single sex spaces.

I think there are considerably more serious issues we need to know his views on.

I live in Scotland where lots of new schools have recently been designed with mixed loos. There are laws (building regs I think) that state schools MUST have separate loos for boys and girls. Parents are rightly suing education authorities for not providing buildings that meet the rules.

You can just TELL the designers gad a passing thought about the regs but thought nah, we’ve all inclusive, be kind blah, blah blah and ploughed on with the illegal loos.

Maybe we could hear those as well?

It's not either/or.

Whether that's true or not, he shows his true colours here. He thinks he can speak on behalf of women, despite clearly not having any understanding of what they think or the implications for them.

Same. It didn't bother me to see older boys in women's changing spaces until I had daughters - oldest of which is nearly 11 and going through puberty. She absolutely does not want older boys and men in the spaces she is changing, and having had this happen several times recently, she now doesn't feel comfortable going to our local swimming pool. At a time when we are encouraging children to exercise more, and at an age when their bodies are changing and they need help to feel positive about them, they are being pushed out

His statement is that men should be able to ‘id’/ blag themselves into spaces where women and girls are in a state of undress - the toilet. I don’t know how Burnham has decided for all women that only a minority object, and he obviously thinks they don’t matter. All women and girls are daughters of fathers.

I think we make the mistake of thinking all fathers care about fairness, safety or dignity for their daughters (and all daughters) over male entitlement to do as they wish. Fathers weren’t fighting for women to have the vote, have property in their own name (instead of being their fathers/husbands property), open bank accounts, abolish rape in marriage for the last thousands of years. It is only in the recent hundred+ years that change like this happened, and circumstances with women being in a position to agitate for it. Now all these men are pushing for ideology that rides roughshod over women’s rights, and makes public space uncomfortable (if not dangerous) for women and girls. Also reducing fairness and opportunities for women and girls.

Afghan fathers are selling their young girls to other men to do with as they wish. Now that is the very sharp end of fathers who put their own privileges above their daughters. But within western culture, do we think all fathers put their daughters and all daughters first. I would be disgusted at anyone who said what Burnham is reported to have said in the paper. It’s just rights for men to harass women.

I was at work when I had a miscarriage. I went to the toilets when I was cramping. Imagine having the stress of being on the lookout for men around, and filming, or photos when you are going through that. Who are the creeps advocating for all this?