Is Andy Burnham reasonable to say only a small minority of women object to men being in their toilets? YABU he's right, YANBU he's wrong *titled tweaked by MNHQ at OP's request*

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15830845/Andy-Burnham-men-identify-women-use-female-toilets.html

'I don't think that's a majority view. I think it's a minority view and quite a small minority view, actually. But it is a view so you can't completely ignore it. Possibly they might be women who have experienced male violence at some point in their life. I don't know, that's one way of looking at it.'

Plenty of women will ignore this issue because it's Labour. As seen on this thread. If a potential incoming PM can be so nonchalant about this issue, God help all women and girls.

Sorry. I did read some of it. I’ll go back through

No. Disabled toilets are for disabled people who need them to be available every single time they need them. This not a want.

They should be exclusive for disabled people, and the only person who has priority is another disabled person.

Service providers will have to find alternatives. Disabled people have rights, too, no less than men, trans-identified or not, and everyone else.

We cannot secure women's rights by asking disabled people to budge up. Lots women are disabled as well.

Thanks that does make sense, however I believe they are a requirement legally now when planning a new building. Ideally both those and regular F/M toilets should be provided but if only space for one sort it should be individual unisex cubicles

Used to be, they changed the regs years back

The first time it happened to me, I took my 5 year old DGS to the loo in our local pub, recently refurbished. We came out of the cubicle and a man came out of the opposite loo. I automatically said “oh” he said “mixed”, I said “oh”.

We stood awkwardly washing our handsopposite each other at the central wash basins and he left.

My DGS, who had been silent all along then said “Grandma why was there a man in here”.

I said “I don’t know, it’s wrong, but obviously they have done this since they reopened”.

Left the bathroom, told everyone in my party what had happened. My DH and other older
men on our group were horrified. My DH couldn’t face a woman in a public loo. He would find it
so disrespectful.

Yes just seen. I only last looked a year ago because my work were building a new place and it was different. (I wasn’t responsible for it just curious hence just a quick google)! As some people at work were objecting about the toilet provision being only unisex. This is what we have in this building now (and only these):

• Unisex/Gender-Neutral Options: Unisex toilets are permitted, but only if they are fully enclosed, self-contained rooms lockable from the inside with their own washbasin

Starmer is exactly the same. The labour party lost many women's votes a while ago now.

They could have “you can pee next to me” T-shirts.

'I won't stare at your fake tits I promise' T-shirts

That would be great.

Yes just look at David Lammy out living his best life in a succession of senior political roles! When he confidently once told the nation that of course transwomen have a cervix. The fool!

Maybe also a helpline telephone number at the bottom of the poster for a Stonewall crisis line manned 24 hpurs a day, so that TW can report any men who stare or say unkind words.

And told anyone who'd listen (always a surprise anyone does), that women who complain about men in our spaces, are rights hoarding dinosaurs.

That would help them so much. Great idea.

It's the same people who say Reform are misogynistic while brushing it under the carpet under Labour. Agree Starmer doesn't know whose rights to protect unless they are Muslim.

Doesn't it make you sick that it's always men telling us what we should and shouldn't feel worried about? If it doesn't affect men, fuck women. That's coming from all men, including transwomen.

Twas ever thus. But just when we thought we'd made progress, it's all regressed, terribly.

Regression is the appropriate word. All the centuries of fighting for worth in our own right to see feel 'pimped out'. Vulgar as that sounds it really is that way.

Why would the both of you be holding your penis?

( sorry, couldn’t resist!)

I imagine there are issues of respect and privacy in mens toilets just as us women want to maintain our respect and privacy in ours, it’s just that at least men know they are standing next to other men, not worrying what the TIM in the next cubicle is doing/planning/ or enjoying how they are involving us as unwilling bit players in their kink fantasy.

A win for everyone (I think) would be that in large establishments where there is already male/female/disabled provision, they add an extra loo which is accessible, but can be used by anyone. It would also be handy for men who don't feel comfortable taking their daughters in the men's loos, or for women with 10 year old boys they don't want to send alone into the men's. I might even use it myself if there is a queue for the women's snaking around the building.

Will never happen of course.

And I guess it's not a win for the TiM who demand the validation of using women-only facilities.

This is the bottom line.

A man cannot truly convince himself he is a woman in every way when there are single sex spaces he can't use that are reserved for actual women. This is the painful heart of it.

But yes, there is a real opportunity here to build additional accessible spaces that are not intended for the physically disabled and would help plenty of people.

Yes - just like white politicians lecturing black politicians on racism …. That doesn’t happen very often because they see the arrogance and hypocrisy in pontificating to a group they don’t belong to and whose experience they can only guess at about how they should feel.

And yet there’s no squeamishness about telling women - the vast majority of whom will have suffered from sexual harassment even if not sexual assault at some point in their lives - that they should be fine and dandy sharing enclosed spaces themselves or having their children share spaces with strange men.

Why do you consider male toilets unsafe for some men, at the same time as arguing they should be in the women's toilet but we should shut up and be told they're not dangerous.

It's not my lack of imagination that's the issue here.

And no the disabled provision isn't there for just anyone who thinks they're special.