Is Andy Burnham reasonable to say only a small minority of women object to men being in their toilets? YABU he's right, YANBU he's wrong *titled tweaked by MNHQ at OP's request*

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15830845/Andy-Burnham-men-identify-women-use-female-toilets.html

'I don't think that's a majority view. I think it's a minority view and quite a small minority view, actually. But it is a view so you can't completely ignore it. Possibly they might be women who have experienced male violence at some point in their life. I don't know, that's one way of looking at it.'

Cheaper to adapt male loos nationwide than to build a whole new third space

It isn't physically possible. The reason urinals are how they are is because they take so little space to p provide the capacity. The building costs would end up the same.

If they have to get rid of urinals and have cubicles it just means men get the same number as women do - equalising across the board really. They'll just have to queue up like we do.

Most disabled loos are unused most of the time.

Imo disabled loos should be priority for disabled people not exclusively for disabled people. Most of them are baby change spaces too anyway, there would be little extra use.

It isn't that simple. The women's loos are a bigger space in many of the places that I visit. EG, 4 urinals and one cubicle vs 5 cubicles.

If we were OK with men being on our toilets, we wouldn't have gendered toilets in the first place.

Most places would just have to use the spaces they have designated and adapt them. You can't go around building an extra 3rd building or taking away surgery rooms in hospitals any cheaper. Men don't need to spend as much time as women in the loo anyway for the most part.

Why? They’re male. Why would they be in danger in male spaces?

Interestingly toilets / facilities they were sexed - mainly mens - to keep women at home. It's almost like it's happening again.. As in they want to make toilets unisex / let men in women's toilets - which often has the same, urinary leash effect

Historically, the lack of public women's restrooms created a "urinary leash." Because Victorian society viewed public urination by women as scandalous, the absence of facilities meant women could only travel as far as their bladders allowed them, severely restricting their ability to work, travel, or participate in public life. 1, 2]
This intentional geographical restriction on women's mobility is well-documented by historians and sociologists: 1, 2]

The "Urinary Leash": During the 19th century, public spaces, transit hubs, and city streets were heavily equipped with men’s urinals, but almost entirely lacked facilities for women. 1, 2]

Forced Confinement: Because "respectable" women could not be seen using the street (unlike men, who openly used street-side urinals or "piss flaps"), they were essentially forced to stay close to home or only visit places where they knew a private toilet was available. 1, 2, 3]

Workplace Discrimination: The historical lack of women's restrooms in commercial buildings and transit lines was even used by many professions as an excuse to avoid hiring women, impeding their economic independence. 1, 2]

The Fight for Facilities: It wasn't until organizations like the Ladies Sanitary Association began campaigning in the 1850s and 1880s that cities began installing the first pay-to-use women's WCs. 1, 2, 3]

For further reading on how urban planning and sanitation shaped women's access to public spaces, you can explore the full history documented by Historic UK or check out the BBC News retrospective on London's historic lack of women's conveniences. 1, 2]

You are short of imaginaton or experience of you have to ask that about a bloke in a dress using a loo with men lined up at urinals.

Let the men fight for men's rights. They don't need handmaidens to do it for them.

You think a guy who has popped in to a loo to have a quick pee is going to turn round and assault a guy there because he has a dress on? My partner wouldn’t give a fuck.

Edited for typos.

As an aside - I am Loving the fact that Andy Burnham's misguided ambition, and Starmer's Labour stalwarts attempts to thwart it - have resulted in more daylight on women's rights being eroded. Thanks Labour - for once.

Yes grubby politics working in our favour.

Exactly. Men need to sort this out between themselves. Leave us out of it.

So then that’s something men need to work on isn’t it? Why is that women’s problem? Or disabled people’s? If all these men are now having to use the third spaces designated for disabled people, won’t that reduce disabled people’s access to facilities? Surely that’s something trans charities and allies can work on. A campaign to tell men to #bekind and budge up.

Why not just have unisex toilets but individual cubicles (self enclosed)

Perhaps the TRAs could design one of them posters that we had to put up with telling the men how to deal with a man dressed as a woman in their toilets.

Something like this;

Men, if you see someone using these facilities who is dressed differently to you please follow these rules;

1)Be kind
2lDon't stare
3)Dont make assumptions
4)Mind your own business
5lThey are no risk to you and are more frightened of you than you are of them.
6)Go about your business without making any comment.

We hope that by following these rules, everyone can have a pleasant experience. Thank you!

Read the thread.

Yep to both posts.

3 times the size
3 times the cost
much higher chance of sexual assault
much higher chance of passing out, never being found and dying.

Got to be honest I absolutely hate any sort of mixed sex toilet of any kind

On the odd occasion a woman comes into the mens in like a pub or club 'cos the women's queue is so long, I pretty much can't use a urinal at all

It's hard enough standing next to another bloke with you both holding your penis let alone a woman wandering past, we hate it.

Yes but you'll still be with males as I dont expect any women will be using the men's toilets. Just have to get past the clothing and makeup.

A surprising number of females think it's ok to wander in TBH.

Anyway, well aware it's not the same sort of power imbalance. But I still hate it.

Why wouldn’t they just go into a cubicle? As far as I am aware men’s loos have both. Not all men like using urinals anyway.

they are safe there as we are told so often that women are safe in cubicles in the ladies.