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Is Andy Burnham reasonable to say only a small minority of women object to men being in their toilets? YABU he's right, YANBU he's wrong *titled tweaked by MNHQ at OP's request*

1000 replies

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 20/05/2026 09:39

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15830845/Andy-Burnham-men-identify-women-use-female-toilets.html

'I don't think that's a majority view. I think it's a minority view and quite a small minority view, actually. But it is a view so you can't completely ignore it. Possibly they might be women who have experienced male violence at some point in their life. I don't know, that's one way of looking at it.'

Andy Burnham backs men who identify as female using women's toilets

The Greater Manchester mayor said the idea that single sex spaces like toilets should be protected for biological women was a 'minority view'.

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15830845/Andy-Burnham-men-identify-women-use-female-toilets.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
27
Wipeywipey · 21/05/2026 07:44

This entire thread has made me realise how easy it would be to slip back to 2018 in debate. I don't want that, we have had the High Court clarification and yes, Starmer has been a wimp on imposing that alongside all of the other changes to law that are "on paper" rather than enacted - Jess Phillips was right to point out his lack of movement on anything to protect women, Jades Law etc - but we simply cannot start rehashing the last 8 years of drama llama political dancing for these idiots who want to be centre toilet stage. Let's forget the media and just let Stamer carry on and see where he is in 2 years for the next election.

MNLurker1345 · 21/05/2026 07:45

Phillipson to ban trans women from female toilets

MNLurker1345 · 21/05/2026 07:47

I am trying to send a link from the Telegraph.toilets
Equalities minister to publish official guidance after ordering ‘tweaks’
Bridget Phillipson will finally publish guidance on single-sex spaces
Credit: Zeynep Demir/Anadolu via Getty Images

Daniel MartinDeputy Political EditorShow biography

20 May 2026 8:38pm BST
Trans women must be barred from female toilets, changing facilities and sports teams, new official guidance is to state.
Bridget Phillipson is expected to confirm on Thursday that official guidance will state what businesses and public bodies must do under the law to protect single-sex spaces.
The guidance follows last year’s Supreme Court judgment that trans women, who were born male, are not legally women for the purposes of the Equality Act.
The equalities minister’s failure to publish ituntil now has meant that hospitals and leisure centres are still allowing trans women into female spaces.
The guidance was written by the Equality and Human Rights Commission and submitted to Ms Phillipson in September, but she requested several revisions before agreeing to publish it.
It is understood the EHRC has agreed to make a number of “tweaks”, including adding more examples on how organisations can ensure trans people have access to toilets and changing rooms while ensuring women’s facilities remain single-sex.
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Women’s rights groups said that while they did not expect major changes, they would be looking very carefully at the examples to ensure they did indeed protect single-sex services.
Helen Joyce, director of advocacy at Sex Matters, called on public bodies to stop dragging their feet and implement the guidance.
“There never was any reason for employers and service providers to wait for this guidance before implementing the law,” she told The Telegraph.
“The Supreme Court was completely clear that when providing single sex spaces and services, sex has to mean sex – male and female.
“But once the EHRC’s new statutory guidance has been published, all delaying tactics must be over.
“All the organisations – including the NHS, local councils and government departments – which fell for the lie that equality law required them to allow people to self-identify their sex must now rewrite legally flawed policies.”
Campaigners, including Helen Joyce, left, celebrated the Supreme Court judgement in April last year
Credit: Richard Baker/In Pictures via Getty Images
The update to the EHRC’s code of practice – the official name for the guidance – was required after the Supreme Court ruled last April that the words “woman” and “sex” in the Equality Act 2010 refer to a biological woman and biological sex.
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It applies to any organisation providing services to the public, including shops, gyms, government departments, the NHS, policing, prisons, hotels, restaurants, theatres, cinemas and hospitals.
The guidance also covers private organisations or charities delivering public services, such as care homes acting on behalf of a council or privately run leisure centres.
It is understood that one version of the guidance said organisations would be able to question trans people over whether they should be using single-sex services based on how they look, their behaviour or concerns raised by others.
Mary-Ann Stephenson, the EHRC chairman, said in December that the guidance would give advice on ensuring “there are services provided for people who can’t or don’t want to use the services for their biological sex”.
Sources close to Ms Phillipson said last month that she had asked the EHRC to ensure there was clarity for all kinds of services and that the code was accessible and robust. “We have always supported the protection of single-sex spaces based on biological sex,” a source said.
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In April, Baroness Falkner, the former EHRC chairman, told The Telegraph she believed Ms Phillipson was putting her “personal ambition” before her role as women and equalities minister over fears that pro-trans backbenchers would scupper any chance of promotion if she published the guidance.
However, on Wednesday, government sources confirmed that the code would finally be laid before MPs on Thursday, before Parliament enters recess. It is the first time it has been updated since 2011.
Alexandra Parmar-Yee, the director of Trans+ Solidarity Alliance, said the guidance must ensure trans people are protected as she described law as “a mess”.
“The earlier draft of this guidance encouraged the policing of everyone’s gender based on appearance and was focused entirely on excluding trans people,” she said.
“It is vital that any new guidance ditches this and provides clarity and confidence for services and associations to keep operating on a trans-inclusive basis, as the majority do, and protects trans people’s participation in public life.
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“Anything less will put trans people’s safety and dignity at risk on a daily basis, and will leave this government with a toxic legacy on LGBTQ+ rights.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/12/24/nhs-still-has-no-single-sex-spaces-for-women/

MNLurker1345 · 21/05/2026 07:47

Just pasted the whole article.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 21/05/2026 07:58

MNLurker1345 · 21/05/2026 07:45

Phillipson to ban trans women from female toilets

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5532573-aibu-to-celebrate-the-government-finally-releasing-guidance-on-keeping-single-sex-spaces-single-sex-even-if-it-is-more-than-a-year-after-the-supreme-court-judgement

AIBU To celebrate the government finally releasing guidance on keeping single sex spaces single sex? Even if it is more than a year after the Supreme Court judgement | Mumsnet

Nobody is banned from toilets, changing rooms or indeed anywhere else, but males must use the male facilities and females use the female facilities. W...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5532573-aibu-to-celebrate-the-government-finally-releasing-guidance-on-keeping-single-sex-spaces-single-sex-even-if-it-is-more-than-a-year-after-the-supreme-court-judgement

OP posts:
Gloriia · 21/05/2026 08:12

MNLurker1345 · 21/05/2026 07:45

Phillipson to ban trans women from female toilets

At last 🎉

Gloriia · 21/05/2026 08:15

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 20/05/2026 22:34

Cocks In Skirts?

I know thats not right but I was too pleased with myself to not post it.

Grin
Helleofabore · 21/05/2026 08:34

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 20/05/2026 22:31

Good points, well made.
would you happen to have those MOJ stats to hand, or a link to them? Or anyone reading this? I may want them for another post, ta!

Maybe this group of threads will be helpful for you to save so you can find them in the future (note: they are not discussion threads only for stashing links.)

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5445880-statistics-poll-evidence-archive-thread

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 21/05/2026 08:35

Helleofabore · 21/05/2026 08:34

Maybe this group of threads will be helpful for you to save so you can find them in the future (note: they are not discussion threads only for stashing links.)

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5445880-statistics-poll-evidence-archive-thread

Thank you! Had no time to search last night, this will be helpful.

Northermcharn · 21/05/2026 08:40

Let's wait and see what's published. I hold my breath.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 21/05/2026 08:43

Northermcharn · 21/05/2026 08:40

Let's wait and see what's published. I hold my breath.

Word from the wise is that it’s exactly the same as the one that was leaked and went to court and was found to be legal but has extra examples around additional non-sexed spaces

I don’t see most organisations having the time or the money to provide extra third spaces

OP posts:
Ihatetomatoes · 21/05/2026 08:55

Brokentoes85 · 20/05/2026 19:14

Don't give 2 hoots in who's using a public toilet. Every single trans person I've come across has struggled in life and never made me feel treated. Cis men, yes, constantly, would never want a trans woman to have to use male toilets.

I don't think lots of politicians/wanna be politicians are using this to win votes.

So you're happy for men who just say they are women in with women and girls. No thanks. You don't get to say that a man can share a toilet with my daughter.

Helleofabore · 21/05/2026 08:57

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 21/05/2026 08:35

Thank you! Had no time to search last night, this will be helpful.

No worries. The OP has links to other specific topic archives as well such as the sports papers and the medical evidence papers.

BIossomtoes · 21/05/2026 08:58

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 21/05/2026 08:43

Word from the wise is that it’s exactly the same as the one that was leaked and went to court and was found to be legal but has extra examples around additional non-sexed spaces

I don’t see most organisations having the time or the money to provide extra third spaces

They won’t. On a recent hospital visit there was a women’s loo and a gender neutral one - no men’s. Increasingly that will become the case.

Northermcharn · 21/05/2026 09:00

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 21/05/2026 08:43

Word from the wise is that it’s exactly the same as the one that was leaked and went to court and was found to be legal but has extra examples around additional non-sexed spaces

I don’t see most organisations having the time or the money to provide extra third spaces

Or space. It'll be the ladies toilets that get reduced in number to provide more mixed spaces. With a token single sex option here and there to tick the box... Even more queuing for women and girls who don't want to share with men, but At Least we have our space. Pitiful and I'm so angry that we're so pleased that yes thanks so much for confirming (what humans have known since time began) that biological sex is real, and yes you can have your single sex spaces, but no it won't be a lot, and yes it will be mostly shared. Be grateful ladies. Fck the patriarchy. Yeah at least we're not In Australia or Spain or France.

😑

Imdunfer · 21/05/2026 09:02

Brokentoes85 · 20/05/2026 19:14

Don't give 2 hoots in who's using a public toilet. Every single trans person I've come across has struggled in life and never made me feel treated. Cis men, yes, constantly, would never want a trans woman to have to use male toilets.

I don't think lots of politicians/wanna be politicians are using this to win votes.

Are you OK with the autogynophile audibly jacking off in the next door cubicle because he's excited at being in women's spaces?

Gloriia · 21/05/2026 09:03

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 21/05/2026 08:43

Word from the wise is that it’s exactly the same as the one that was leaked and went to court and was found to be legal but has extra examples around additional non-sexed spaces

I don’t see most organisations having the time or the money to provide extra third spaces

As a pp has said surely the solution here is women's toilets and gender neutral toilets.

It seems so obvious. Obviously men dressed as women won't be happy and will still try to intimidate women but that's going to be an ongoing battle unfortunately.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 21/05/2026 09:04

Another big headline today…

Is Andy Burnham reasonable to say only a small minority of women object to men being in their toilets? YABU he's right, YANBU he's wrong *titled tweaked by MNHQ at OP's request*
OP posts:
Northermcharn · 21/05/2026 09:06

Gloriia · 21/05/2026 09:03

As a pp has said surely the solution here is women's toilets and gender neutral toilets.

It seems so obvious. Obviously men dressed as women won't be happy and will still try to intimidate women but that's going to be an ongoing battle unfortunately.

It's almost as obvious as men being men and women being women, isn't it..

And yet..

Imdunfer · 21/05/2026 09:11

Gloriia · 21/05/2026 09:03

As a pp has said surely the solution here is women's toilets and gender neutral toilets.

It seems so obvious. Obviously men dressed as women won't be happy and will still try to intimidate women but that's going to be an ongoing battle unfortunately.

That changes the dynamics of a lot of the men's loos completely. It would require separate cubicles not urinals, because a lot of men would not be happy using a urinal with women walking past, and there's no space for that.

In the short term, where the gents has urinals, it's pretty clear that the disabled loos are going to have to be shared. I don't agree with forcing males dressed as women to use loos with urinals in.

Gloriia · 21/05/2026 09:17

'I don't agree with forcing males dressed as women to use loos with urinals in'

Why? They can use a cubicle. I'm not suggesting they have to pull their tights down at an urinal or anything,

Northermcharn · 21/05/2026 09:24

Imdunfer · 21/05/2026 09:11

That changes the dynamics of a lot of the men's loos completely. It would require separate cubicles not urinals, because a lot of men would not be happy using a urinal with women walking past, and there's no space for that.

In the short term, where the gents has urinals, it's pretty clear that the disabled loos are going to have to be shared. I don't agree with forcing males dressed as women to use loos with urinals in.

No. The disabled loos are for disabled people.

Eta - Who have no choice about being disabled. Unlike..

EasternStandard · 21/05/2026 09:24

MNLurker1345 · 21/05/2026 07:45

Phillipson to ban trans women from female toilets

Great. Well done and thanks to the women who made it happen.

The Starmer camp releasing it now mid Burnham woes on this is Labour’s infighting.

Wipeywipey · 21/05/2026 09:25

BIossomtoes · 21/05/2026 08:58

They won’t. On a recent hospital visit there was a women’s loo and a gender neutral one - no men’s. Increasingly that will become the case.

Interesting. Maybe men will wake up to the debate if their spaces actually start reducing as a result. Or maybe we will just see an increase in sex crimes in the neutral spaces across the board.

Northermcharn · 21/05/2026 09:27

EasternStandard · 21/05/2026 09:24

Great. Well done and thanks to the women who made it happen.

The Starmer camp releasing it now mid Burnham woes on this is Labour’s infighting.

So transparent. They really are a grotty bunch.

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