Is Andy Burnham reasonable to say only a small minority of women object to men being in their toilets? YABU he's right, YANBU he's wrong *titled tweaked by MNHQ at OP's request*

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15830845/Andy-Burnham-men-identify-women-use-female-toilets.html

'I don't think that's a majority view. I think it's a minority view and quite a small minority view, actually. But it is a view so you can't completely ignore it. Possibly they might be women who have experienced male violence at some point in their life. I don't know, that's one way of looking at it.'

So now you are agreeing that Andy Burnham did say this?

You started with "why should we believe this, it's in the Daily Fail."

And now you're changing the argument to yes, he did say it, "but it's about when he said it"?

Nice U-turn. Almost missed it.

Natch.

simpsonthecat · Today 11:05
I'm curious. On the continent, there are a lot of toilets in public spaces (airports etc) with cubicles and both the man and woman sign on the outside, i.e. they are unisex. Doesn't worry me at all.
Just to add, I don't know anyone who is concerned about this.

I’m not sure referencing the continent is going to reassure women about the good intentions of men. Or, has everyone forgotten Gisèle Pelicot already? And again, what’s with the ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude of so many posters?

I have also experienced violence and sexual assault from many men as I had the great misfortune to be a teenager in the 60s. When people say 'Not all men," my response is maybe not all, but an awful bloody lot of them. And what was overt in the 60s, 70s and 80s is simply covert now with a very pornified generation of younger men displaying an extra edge of hatred and spite as they realize we need them less and less and won't put up with their shit anymore.

However I think you are totally missing the point. As soon as some men are able to access single sex spaces because they are supposedly trans, then other men, trans or otherwise, will also feel entitled to access them too for reasons connected with trouser filth and general perving. And before we know where we are, we'll no longer have any single sex spaces.

You are right that men can assault us wherever they like, but why should we make it even easier for them? And in addition, single sex spaces are single sex simply because they are where we are at our most vulnerable because we are in a state of undress.

This is about far more than excluding trans identifying men - it's about excluding all men. And at a time when being trans means that men don't necessarily even need to look like a female and only have to feel a bit girly, while expecting to enjoy heterosexual relationships too, we are at far greater danger than we have ever been before.

Oh here we go. Yet another man telling women what women have to find acceptable. Fuck off.

On another thread Andy Burnham said in an interview that women shouldn’t have celebrated the Supreme Court ruling. Fuck him.

So reporting on something he has openly said and apparently believes is 'smearing' him, is it?

Only if sharing it is something he should be thoroughly bloody ashamed of as should any other decent person.

The country he wishes to lead has every right to know who he is and what he believes in. If he wants to be a proud TRA then crack on, it's a free country, but why hide it? Unless there's something wrong with it.....?

The polling professionals - no “ needed - who are currently working in Makerfield to test the mood of the electorate. But you knew that anyway.

I did, but I just thought I’d show that your earlier statement was poorly informed nonsense, however much you wish otherwise 🤷‍♀️

Shame you didn’t manage it then. 🤷‍♀️

It’s not a minority who believe it, there’s stats and polling showing he isn’t correct.

Not U turning at all. Moving with the debate on the thread.

I pointed out much earlier on what I perceive to be a discrepancy between Burnham's quote and the Mail headline, a newspaper whose agenda not many support on Mumsnet (unless it seems it fits a certain narrow POV).

The timing of the Supreme Court ruling came up later in the thread.

As I have said, I agree with the Supreme Court ruling and I agree with Burnham's comments, the two are not, in my view, mutually exclusive. You however probably have a different view which I respect you are equally entitled to.

Well it's not true that it's a minority, the polling all says otherwise.

I'm glad you agree with the Supreme Court ruling. Why do you think Burnham doesn't want to uphold it?

I'm happy to read those and change my view then, I'm just going on my gut instinct. I don't think I've seen those shared on this thread, but Haven't read all the posts.

Where has he said he doesn't want to uphold it? The comments he made were in 2022 before the ruling came out.

The polling said the same then. He and his cheerleaders were wrong then and they’re wrong now.

This. For the record I don’t want men in women’s spaces and I’m sick to the back teeth of men implying it’s unreasonable to hold that view or that it’s a minority view.

Saw on Twitter that Duncan Bannatyne, on discovering this, has withdrawn his support for Burnham. ( and is now supporting the female Restore Britain candidate! )

https://x.com/TalkTV/status/2057066028417392972?s=20

Not an interpretation - more a representation of fact. Your post displayed arrogance and AB has displayed arrogance. I know you didn't Really need me to spell it out, but I felt I should.

Are the Greens and Tories running btw or have there been deals made?

Well he seems to have said that FWS shouldn't have been celebrating it. His lack of update on his position (despite being asked). The general Labour malaise around the guidance. It's not exacting reassuring, is it?

Thank You Duncan

A unisex toilet is one that is completely self contained, with floor to ceiling walls, lockable from the inside and includes its own washbasin and hand drying facilities. Thus it affords a much greater level of privacy and enables women to change sanitary products and clean up after period accidents discreetly.

These have to suffice in bars, cafes, restaurants and other public spaces where there's insufficient space for separate facilities Even so, it's hateful to have share facilities with men who often have very poor toilet etiquette, widdle all over the seat and floor, leave shit down the side of the pan and never give a thought to cleaning up after themselves.

And frankly, it matters not one whit what you think because thankfully womens rights belong to all of us and can't be dismantled by trans maidens or people like you who obviously have no regard for womens' dignity, privacy and safety.

Like Kemi Badenoch has you mean? Well tbf she's got my vote when/if the time comes

Yeah. Yet again we have a man telling women that they have to accept men telling women that men are women.

Fck off Burnham. Fck off Starmer. Fck off Streeting. Fck off Lammy.