Is Andy Burnham reasonable to say only a small minority of women object to men being in their toilets? YABU he's right, YANBU he's wrong *titled tweaked by MNHQ at OP's request*

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15830845/Andy-Burnham-men-identify-women-use-female-toilets.html

'I don't think that's a majority view. I think it's a minority view and quite a small minority view, actually. But it is a view so you can't completely ignore it. Possibly they might be women who have experienced male violence at some point in their life. I don't know, that's one way of looking at it.'

Unbelievable. How horrible.

To whichever member of Andy's team is monitoring this post - hi!

Do listen, and pass on the views of 51% of your constituency to be.

But that is exactly the mistake: treating “transwomen” as a separate safe category from men.

Women’s toilets exist because of sex, not because signs magically stop rapists. The point is not that a sign creates a forcefield. The point is that women and girls are entitled to a clear boundary, and staff/police/security need a clear rule to enforce.

Once you say some males may enter female toilets if they identify a certain way, you have removed the boundary for all practical purposes.

The answer is not mixed-sex toilets. It is male, female, and additional single-user provision for anyone who needs privacy, accessibility, family use or neutrality.

Women should not be asked to give up single-sex spaces because public bodies failed to provide enough third spaces.

I have absolute faith that if Labour, including Keir, Bridget, and Andy, can quietly bury all future mention and knowledge of the guidance, they will.

I imagine More in Common has a better grasp of the situation than some random who happens to be local.

He's Llke Mr Ben. What next Andy maybe a bit of telly presenting if the new Strictly presenters don't prove popular, or a stint as Ambassador to the US? Weren't they looking for someone 🤔

He's kind of right, in that only a small minority of women object to men being in women's spaces. But he's wrong in his interpretation of that. He doesn't understand that it's because the majority are too intimidated by violent males to speak out. Silence does not equal support.

And they reckon its a coin toss.

s

And that was BEFORE todays attacks.

'Some random' @Northermcharn

The Labour party was a dead cert for the last election, not because people really wanted them but because anything was supposed to be better than Boris and his pack of old Etonians. Now people are losing faith in them already and they're afraid to do anything radical incase it makes things worse. I'd have a little more respect for them if they'd actually stand up and declare themselves, as it is I feel they're just saying what they think we want to hear whilst quietly doing as they like

How are you distinguishing between transwomen and men?

On what grounds would you be excluding a man from a woman's toilet?

From what it sounds like you are suggesting unisex toilets, but with no consideration that they might put women at risk because nobody is acknowledging that they are unisex.

pretty dress and wiggle their bum.

'I would far rather share female toilets with transwomen than unisex toilets with men'

Transwomen are men?

I'm fine with it. However I know that not all women are and am aware that my views aren't what determines what's right.

I would far rather share female toilets with transwomen than unisex toilets with men

They're the same thing. That's the point. It's just that only one has an honest and accurate description.

They will be no different to the Daily Fail.

My daughter was videod under a toilet cubicle and my neice pushed into a floor to ceiling toilet cubicle and raped,i was Sexually assaulted (also working class no sex work) 3 times by males. I don't know the gender identity of any of the males who violated me,my daughter or my niece. I dont' think that males attack women and girls where ever they damn well please is a cogent argument for not allowing some female single sex spaces ie:toilets.
Males in stereotypically feminine clothing remain male and so do their offending patterns (see ONS for violent/sexual crime stats).

So the best person for the job of Labour leader has always been a man? I find that unlikely.

This just reads like another one of those "I'm as GC as the next person, but..." posts.

Men who identify as women are still male, you understand that, right?

And single-sex toilets based on actual, biological sex worked well enough until about 10-15 years ago. No policing necessary. Yes, they had all the problems that public toilets have, but we all knew who the men were and who the women were.

It's fairly simple to get back to the way things were in 2012: people in authority just need to start using their words. Let's start with "no" to entitled, toddler-identifying men.

How does that change the fact it's an unedited recording?

And if Burnham has since changed his position, how will that prevent him from making a new public statement to say so?

Do you always ignore the truth if it comes from a source you'd rather not acknowledge?

The vote is not quite as unanimous as I expected (I said happily).

As for his actual comment? Oh dear. 🙄

Are you saying that they’ve doctored the recording?

I hope I've voted correctly, OP. I've voted YANBU because this quote from AB is arrogant and patronising and worries me considerably!

Are you suggesting it's fake or has been altered to make out that he said women's opinions didn't matter?