Consent needs full disclosure, right?

[PeoplesNet]

Twice now I've had to deal with men who don't last longer than two minutes in bed (or 6 seconds) and they knew about their problem beforehand but didn't think it relevant to warn me or check I was okay with it.

Is it unreasonable to consider this a failure to get informed consent? I would never have agreed to waste my time getting done up, spend hours with them on a date, get naked with them etc if I'd known there was no possibility of enjoyment for me, just them.

No relationship involved, so it was obvious I was expecting to enjoy myself as well.

At this stage, I'll confirm: they couldn't do anything to satisfy me - clearly not interested in working on any skills to satisfy the woman.

20 years ago, I would have felt obligated to accept this and feel sorry for the bloke and his issues. But at this enlightened stage in my life, I feel angry and used. I explained to the most recent guy that he has an obligation to warn any potential partner so they can make an informed decision about whether or not they want to have sex with him. To his credit, he did agree and said he hadn't considered that. But why not?? Why isn't this info reaching men?

I've been reading on here about issues with men taking too long to share kinks and I know people would be furious if STDs / HIV status weren't discussed beforehand.

I think it's time for men/people to recognise that consent isn't just a general 'yes' and then people have to deal with whatever cr*p you throw at them in bed.

I suppose I have learned now to be explicit about what I'm consenting to. So if any men start wondering why they're suddenly being asked for girth, length and stamina. This is why. Haha jokes.

I mean this arrogant douche hadn't even considered viagra, and tried to tell me no other sexual partners had complained! What?! Then they were being typical, polite, agreeable women, because no way is shifting your weight every 5 seconds and climaxing after 2 mins acceptable bedroom behaviour!

Yes - it’s a term used in the medical field. Completely meaningless in this context. She’s not going to be able to sue him is she?

Okay, this is getting interesting. Why can't I challenge the concept of what qualifies or should qualify as having not been informed (I'm not a solicitor so I just use English based on what it means) - without being attacked for it? Laws change. And only because people challenge them. I understand we're online where people tend to feel comfortable hurling insults and accusations. It's my first thread on this site - nice to see the quality of debate and discussion..

Someone gave examples of when consent stops (pulling off condom and a bunch of others, STDs I think).. so we're back to the specific issue I described. Why is it okay for a man to withhold that the equipment needed for the job is faulty? And always is. Not a one off.

But anyway, I wasn't actually trying to challenge the law(!) just wish we could normalise sharing this info before sex along with STDs and expectations around slapping / choking / condom usage etc.

You don't have to agree but at no point have I compared this experience to a rape survivor (I could share my own experiences of that, which I definitely wouldn't here after the insults and negativity) - I am fully aware of all the various issues relating to all the types of consent and find it even more appalling some people made judgements without knowing anything about the OP (me). Very disappointed in my experience of using this site. Some users were kinder and more open-minded than others though.

Fucking hell. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

I have quoted several times - can you get someone to read them to you?

I echo that. Really sorry that happened to you @Crushed23. It was a criminal offence, for what it's worth. I hope you're OK.

All I’ve seen is trolling misunderstanding of the context of the use of “informed consent”. I read all of OPs replies

Yikes 6 seconds?! maybe they’re just not that into you OP 🥴

The ones that agree with you, obviously.

people would have happily debated the point. I am not going to quote the offensive shit you replied to me but at no point did you try to separate yourself from your victim mentality to see that your experience was fuck all to do with actual assault. You could have made it clear. You could have stopped using the terminology associated with rape.

But you didn’t

Of course, but even with all the foreplay and cunnilingus in the world, that level of premature ejaculation is going to please nobody

Yes OP if someone can’t sustain sexual performance for more than 2 minutes and had no interest in giving a woman compensatory pleasure for their performance issues I’d have not wanted to be involved …🍀😉

Oh now troll hunting is against the rules. 🤣

Why are you disappointed with this site ? Did you expect everyone to agree with you? You are coming across as self centred.

If you have genuinely got experience of being a survivor why would you continue to wind up other survivors to make your point?

Yes quite.

The (only) reasonable thing to do would be to say, I'm sorry I realise I shouldn't have used the word consent. What I meant was "people should be more upfront about their realistic sexual abilities".

People could have agreed or disagreed with that.

Doubling down on "consent needs disclosure" and trying to obfuscate by shoehorning (without understanding) concepts like "informed consent" (which also exists in rape btw and still doesn't mean what OP wants it to mean) is just...so odd.

I'm tired now anyway but glad to see the vast majority on here are sensible and compassionate. I would be mortified if this was my first time on MN and I had upset so many people about such a traumatic topic for many. I certainly wouldn't be suggesting they were "men" or "sensitive women". Gah!!

Goodnight all (not you OP) xx

Good night! x

Thank you, while I disagree on the specifics of what needs to be disclosed, you have given me a really well-considered response with information that I can think about when I reflect on my views on this. I'm leaning towards just being super direct about what I want and what I'm consenting to. Can't just assume / leave it to the other person to be forthcoming (no pun intended).

Do you think you could be hooking up with these guys too soon? You don’t know enough about them and you’ve not had much of a chance to build up any chemistry. These guys are not attached to you so maybe don’t feel any great need to satisfy you. They are in it for themselves. Maybe look for men that state they get pleasure from giving rather than receiving. there are some guys like they. Good luck

*like that

I haven't read the full thread, but the OP didn’t mention rape, and I didn’t take it that way. I took it that she was annoyed that someone with a sexual performance issue that made it an experience absent of pleasure for her, didn't disclose that before getting naked.

Withholding information or lying can often be used to ensure sex that otherwise wouldn’t take place – a man could tell a woman he’s single when actually he’s married with three kids. The woman wouldn’t have had sex with him if she had known he was married, and she may feel used and lied to, but it’s not rape. Still, it’s unethical and inappropriate.

She would not have consented, had she known very pertinent information.

It seems that’s what OP is talking about, and fair enough. A man withholding information or misconstruing things so that a woman has sex with him, because if she’d been fully informed, he’s fairly certain she wouldn’t have.

I think premature ejaculation is a fair thing to be angry about. If he knew beforehand that he was incapable of normal sexual intercourse, and deliberately withheld that information because he wanted to ensure his own pleasure and knew she’d turn him down if she knew she’d get nothing out of it.

It’s not criminal, of course, but it is disrespectful, manipulative, and disgusting.

(Additionally, this is something some women may do too, regarding saying they’re on contraceptives when they’re not, or single when they’re not, for instance. This is also unethical.)

Another well-thought out argument. Yeah, I agree with all of this. I've experienced a lot of what you listed but only this particular performance issue has stood out as especially aggravating. Not sure why and you've given me food for thought. Maybe.. because it's so clear cut? It's not subjective at all. They knew their equipment didn't work. Not sometimes. Permanently.

I already concluded I'll just be more explicit in future about what I'm looking for.

Thank you for taking the time to offer insight and relevant (helpful) points to consider.

What if a male counter claimed that you didn't inform him that you were just too damn hot/wet/tight/whatever leading him to come too soon and having his experience (albeit enjoyably) cut short.

He was hoping for something longer lasting.

I understand your post, OP. However, like it or not, the language/terminology used didn't work, so I suggest you refrain.

Going forward, I can see two approaches on sexual adventures:

• You being totally upfront that you expect both parties to have an enjoyable time and if stamina is an issue, say so and you can have fun stretching out the enjoyment in a myriad of ways instead of just going for piv

• You take the time to give appropriate feedback. I think you said you had a discussion with one of your recent partners. Do so for the other. Years ago I had what turned out to be a ONS when we'd flirted and dated for weeks (if I had known I was going to be used, I wouldn't have bothered). I called him out for getting his jollies and not bothering to contact me again. To his credit he did reply and hopefully he took that discussion as an opportunity to learn.

You do realise that men can experience premature ejaculation for the first time at any point in their lives, and it can also never happen again.

There are so many different factors to consider.

You sound very immature in your thoughts around sex and also your very deliberate use of language, but you already know that

Ooooh. I thought it was referring to some one who draws/ sketches copulating couples. Doh!! 😎🙃😬

Consent is broader than just whether or not one agrees to have sex or not, though (to PPs who make a connection with rape). It is also about whom we believe ourselves to be having sex with (is it a person with whom we believe ourselves to have an exclusive and 'safe' relationship, is the person going to take appropriate reproductive and sexual health precautions, are they who they say they are with regard to sex and age etc). Perhaps an expectation that a potential partner discloses sexual dysfunction is a bit of a reach, or maybe it's just part of a broader suite of considerations we have when deciding who to have sex with. In my experience, consent doesn't work like an interview or a check-list; "I enjoy spanking -do you consent to me administering a few slaps on your bottom?" I think of the conversations and interactions leading up to sex as part of the process, like doing my own due diligence. I'm still actively deciding right up to the moment of engaging in sex so I'm continuously making dynamic decisions about consent and don't necessarily feel the need to communicate each thing I'm considering and each judgement I make to my potential partner -it's as much of an internal process as a verbalised discussion.

I agree, too 👋 Had a very similar experience as a student. Guy just climbed into bed, slipped straight in, squirt and out. I was a bit surprised. Assumed he was very inexperienced, but didn't bother trying to find out.

As I got older, more experienced and a lot more assertive, I did start having these conversations before getting down to it. I've also hopped out of bed and gone home (or banished the man from my bedroom) when they started acting 'pornified' - I'm including being mentally absent during sex here, as well as idiotic things like slapping and head-pushing.

I have consented to a lot of sex. At no point was I consenting to be used as a fantasy wank sock! Yes, I have told them I'm not brilliant at blow jobs. Every single one said he didn't care 😄