Consent needs full disclosure, right?

[PeoplesNet]

Twice now I've had to deal with men who don't last longer than two minutes in bed (or 6 seconds) and they knew about their problem beforehand but didn't think it relevant to warn me or check I was okay with it.

Is it unreasonable to consider this a failure to get informed consent? I would never have agreed to waste my time getting done up, spend hours with them on a date, get naked with them etc if I'd known there was no possibility of enjoyment for me, just them.

No relationship involved, so it was obvious I was expecting to enjoy myself as well.

At this stage, I'll confirm: they couldn't do anything to satisfy me - clearly not interested in working on any skills to satisfy the woman.

20 years ago, I would have felt obligated to accept this and feel sorry for the bloke and his issues. But at this enlightened stage in my life, I feel angry and used. I explained to the most recent guy that he has an obligation to warn any potential partner so they can make an informed decision about whether or not they want to have sex with him. To his credit, he did agree and said he hadn't considered that. But why not?? Why isn't this info reaching men?

I've been reading on here about issues with men taking too long to share kinks and I know people would be furious if STDs / HIV status weren't discussed beforehand.

I think it's time for men/people to recognise that consent isn't just a general 'yes' and then people have to deal with whatever cr*p you throw at them in bed.

I suppose I have learned now to be explicit about what I'm consenting to. So if any men start wondering why they're suddenly being asked for girth, length and stamina. This is why. Haha jokes.

I mean this arrogant douche hadn't even considered viagra, and tried to tell me no other sexual partners had complained! What?! Then they were being typical, polite, agreeable women, because no way is shifting your weight every 5 seconds and climaxing after 2 mins acceptable bedroom behaviour!

I understand that. Again I will quote

Not every experience of rape or being used is the same and it isn't fair to invalidate another woman's experiences just because yours was objectively worse.

She isn’t saying being raped is totally different to being used and she’s having a go because she feels I’m invalidating her experience.

If you're a lawyer you'll surely be aware that informed consent for sex is an existing concept in criminal law (R v Lineker and the cases which followed on rape by fraud and deception) and the sort of matters which can vitiate consent (whether you call it "informed consent" or not) are certainly nothing as trivial as someone saying they would be good in bed and then orgasming very quickly.

Nope ..he had a problem he didn’t disclose ..OP felt she didn’t have informed consent . It’s simple and her right to feel misled and used

Interesting points and as you seem normal and are not hurling insults at me, can I check:

Would you report the trades person to the police for fraud if it turned out they weren't qualified / experienced in that trade and had lied from the outset about being able to 'perform' the job? Or just leave a bad review?

(I enjoy debating and challenging ideas, please don't read into this)

Sorry but in the midst of all this offensive shit, I have just laughed out loud at ‘you flannel’ 🤣

When we talk about undisclosed problems with relation to consent to sex, these are things that could cause really serious harm. Not performance issues. For example, STDs and lying about contraception, stealthing

I enjoy debating and challenging ideas, please don't read into this)
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If you wanted to debate this I would have expected you to have picked up on the tone of the thread and dropped the hyperbole in order to have a sensible discussion

That sounds like play lawyer.

I’m a lawyer who has a degree, legal practice training, MA in healthcare law, NHS and forensic law experience....informed consent was entirely appropriate in this context as meaning - not having all the information to decide.

Other posters have escalated the issue to high dramatics that the OP never claimed to relate to

Your experience in civil litigation has given you very little understanding of the criminal offence of rape and its constituent parts, it appears.

It’s not hyperbole ..it’s a very basic term about having all information used mundanely every day …as OPdid

Oh dear …any ordinary person in the street knows what ‘informed consent’ is and that it is used in the medical world ..the rest is just trolling

I see- so if someone doesn’t agree with you, then they must be either
men or “sensitive women” who are not considerate of other women ( I assume a euphemism for internalised misogyny)? Is it not also possible that we might also be quite normal people who just don’t agree with your standpoint? That degree of arrogance (both in your phrasing regarding those who disagree with you and your assumption that your interpretation of your experience is the only valid one) is quite something.

Personally, I find your argument VERY muddled. if you use terms like “lack of consent” in the context of sexual activity, it is not surprising that many people will read that as you comparing it in some way to rape and sexual assault. I’m also not clear on what you believe the difference is between “lack of consent” and “lack of informed consent”, when it comes to sex? Any form of consent implies that the person consenting is sufficiently informed to be able to make the decision to consent and has done so before the event takes place (whether that is sex, or something else). Even if the decision, when it comes to human relationships (however brief), is that you are choosing to consent despite not knowing all the information (e,g, chosing to have a one night stand with someone you know very little about, without asking for more information). In essence, I am asking why is sex/sexual activity without “consent” rape/sexual assault, yet sex without “informed consent” is not? What differentiates consent from “informed consent”?

If consent given is not valid, then what actually are you saying happened? That you feel frustrated and used? Yes, ok- but you did have consensual sex. What you did (twice) was have consensual sex with a selfish man who was utterly inconsiderate of your needs or pleasure. It’s pretty unpleasant behaviour on their part, I’d agree, and I can absolutely feeling frustrated, let down or angry- but what it was not was non-consensual sex (informed consent, or otherwise)

I also am unclear as to how you can possibly define what constitutes “informed consent” when it comes to sex? Your definition of what you would want/need to be informed about in order to give “informed consent” is highly likely to be totally different to a wide variety of other people. Given this fact, how would you determine what information needs to be given to a potential sexual partner for it to be considered “informed consent”? It’s nothing like consent for medical procedures- there are very definite parameters for gaining informed consent for medical procedures or treatment- which are, for the most part, clearly defined processes with standard protocols/known risks vs benefits etc. Codifying what “informed consent” actually is, in the way you frame it, would be an utter minefield for all concerned.

I also find the language around “invalidating your experience” (or similar wording) somewhat contrived. Just because you feel something or think something about your experience, doesn’t make your position/belief unquestionable and inviolate. You can feel what you like about the situation, but others can state they feel you are incorrect in your interpretation, without you retreating into the language of victimhood.

I don’t think you were treated respectfully by these 2 men- not principally because of the premature ejaculation issue, as it happens- but because they showed no interest in your satisfaction thereafter. It’s an unpleasant experience, but it is not even in the same stratosphere as sexual assault, which your language is easily interpretable as implying a degree of similarity-even if that was not your intention.

Are you really? Well you have been busy.

You probably mean well but can’t you see that it isn’t the use of ‘informed consent’ that has caused all this? It’s the OP’s attitude that she is a victim to a slightly lesser extent to a rape survivor.

If you are happy to support her in this then fine. It’s not a good look though

I was trying as hard as possible not to swear in light of OP's suggestion that having sex with someone Missy Elliot would have disparagingly referred to as a "one minute man" was "experiencing violence"

Unfortunately I think that told me everything I needed to know about the flannel 😂

OP described men that actively and deliberately had no interest in offering a woman any pleasure whatsoever, not just 'performance issues'.

You are not the person who has the right to draw the line in OPs lived experience..she is clear she felt misled ..so there are cases that cross the line into criminality with consent…..OP talks about “informed consent” which is a different concept ..

Feigning misunderstanding after explanation is just trolling

Do You not understand that it isn’t the wording ‘informed consent’ that’s the issue?

I have known many lawyers, good and bad, but never one that misses the point so badly

How could they offer women any pleasure if they can't perform over six seconds

Where does she say that ?

I suppose what it boils down to = man, perfectly satiated.
Woman = frustrated.

Just stop offering yourself to randoms.

I am normal, correct.

I don't understand what you think you are suggesting we "debate". Whether I called the police on the tradesman or hairdresser, or left a bad review, the one thing I wouldn't do is say that I didn't consent to what had happened.

For the reasons I have explained. Because consent has a meaning and in the context of sex a lack of consent means rape.

Pleasure isn't only derived from piv sex.

And the OP has no right to frame her experience as just a lesser version of sexual assault.

But yes a crap shag is certainly awful and I feel quite lucky that all I had to deal with was violent sexual assault before I had ever had consensual sex.

WTF

@Crushed23 I’m so sorry that you have had to read this & have your traumatic events compared to this woman's bad one night stand.

I have no words at this woman.